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A few words - Lynda
Hi. I am usually the *silent*partner in this forum,
although I read all the submissions and Bernd and I talk
them over and hash them thru. . . so many people have
gone and are still going thru many of the same things we
have. It is wonderful that we have found a place to share
our pain and experiences. I have noticed that over and
over again the question of affairs and “do I love
him/her” keep coming to the surface. I'll mention a
bit about how I was able to *survive* these issues.
I was 19 when we started living together, 21 when we
married, 3 babies before 25 and the only marriage pattern
I had to follow was that of my parents. So if I was a
good wife, kept my anger inside and pretended everything
was ok. . . it would be. I honestly thought we had a
great marriage for the first 13 years or so. When Bernd
had his affairs, I suspected (gut feeling) & I
questioned him after two of them and he denied them, so I
punished myself for thinking such terrible things about
such an “honest man”. However, the anger and
resentment that came with my gut feelings wouldn’t
leave me alone. I wanted to be “shown” that he
loved me. I wanted cards on those “special”
days, I wanted to “do things “ together”,
more than anything I wanted to feel special.
In hindsight, I realize I am special, and for me to
need another person to constantly confirm this for me was
my biggest problem. I began an affair out of anger, out
of feeling shut out of my own marriage, of not feeling
good enough, of not knowing how to communicate with Bernd
any more. After he found out, he confirmed his own
affairs to me, and I felt RAGE for the first time in my
life. After all the years, all the questioning and
denials, of denying my own wants and needs I found out
what I had always suspected was TRUE!!! I hated him at
that moment for making me feel so ashamed and like such a
bitch for having an affair and here he is telling me he
had had 3! Not only that, but had continuously denied
them and as a result, I was no longer able to trust in my
gut feelings.
Needless to say, things went spiralling from there.
Over the next year I moved out for two weeks, he moved
out for six weeks and we continued to hurt each other
over and over again. Thru out all this chaos, I wanted to
end the marriage many times, as he did. . . but a little
voice inside us both kept saying ”hang in there, it
will be worth it”, and I nor he could shut it off
for very long. That voice was insistent, and although we
hated the voice at times we were also unable to ignore
that it was there. I was in therapy and going to AL-Anon
at this point, so when Bernd had told me he wasn’t
coming back and had developed a relationship with a lady
we both knew, I was able to cry about my loss and start
to let go. I was able to finally examine the role I
played in this marriage and began to see *I* had faults
too. What a revelation! After Bernd moved back home, I
held no ill feelings toward this woman, she was a human
being and was doing the best she could just like the rest
of us. I welcomed her into our home when ever she wanted
and hugged her and shed tears and laughed with her. Hard
to believe? It was my first taste of unconditional love,
and it felt wonderful. I cared bout her for who she was
not what she had or hadn’t done. This was one of the
hardest but yet one of the easiest things I ever had to
do.
I wanted to give Bernd the same unconditional love and
although it has been harder because we both had so much
baggage and shit behind us, I decided to use the shit as
fertilizer and grow a garden of love whether we were
together or not, I wanted to be a more loving person to
everyone, including myself. This was tested again when he
developed a very serious online affair with a woman.
Because he also had a lot of recovery under his belt at
this time and we realized that SECRETS KILL, he told me
about it and it’s intensity. Before he did, he told
me that any feelings that I was about to have I could
have and he would not leave. This bit of freedom allowed
me to scream, kick the dashboard a few times and get the
initial anger out. After, I was ready to talk it out, to
try to understand it all to see what I had to learn from
this latest turn of events.
By getting my anger out, and Bernd giving me
permission to feel whatever I had to feel, I was then
able to talk to this girl online with caring and
compassion and be very truthful but loving towards her. I
found out we ere alot a like in of ways and she had her
problems and baggage just like the rest of us. I talked
with her several times, and although we aren’t
friends per say, we both realize our “meeting”,
no matter what circumstances may have brought us
together, allowed us to look inside ourselves and taught
us some very important things about ourselves that we may
never have discovered or maybe would only have discovered
years down the road. She will always have a special place
in my heart. I try now to look at each new bit of pain in
my life as a teacher, because true living is never going
to be pain free, and see what it has to teach me.
When we say our affairs were the worst thing and yet
the best thing that ever happened to us, we mean it. For
us, it was the ONLY way God could get these thick heads
to stop and realize what is important in life. Our
recovery continues day by day, and each day I am thankful
for what I have and not focus on what I don’t seem
to have, which is how I lived the first 35 years of my
life. For me it works much better, and I am able to feel
what unconditional love is and pass it on to others. The
pain goes, it is replaced with love and empathy for
others going down similar paths, but only after you are
truly ready to feel the pain and let it go. Have I
forgiven? To me, that comes with acceptance of each other
as being imperfect human beings. A friend once said
“ To forgive isn’t to forget. . . . It’s
remembering in a different way. ”
I wrote these lines to share a bit how I personally
went through the fire of affairs and came thru the other
side a much stronger, more loving person, which is
what’s important, whether Bernd and I are sharing
our lives as a couple or not. I am very grateful to have
learned the lessons I have even if the homework was
unrelentless at times. As always, take what you want and
leave the rest:) Keep searching, keep sharing, for it is
only thru the search that any of us will find the answers
we are looking for. Much love and Huggggggs Lynda
 From: Luise
What was it that held you an Bernd together? Each
other, the kids, commitment to marriage? I, like you,
kept lots of anger bottled up over the first 14 years
marriage because I'm the peace maker. So my husband was
in shock when he realized I had a problem with the
marriage. He has ignored my requests for him to go to
therapy for the past 4 years until just a few days ago.
So I'm going to go with him BUT 4 years of asking and I'm
tired. We just do not "share" feelings well. I
know I need a soul mate and he just doesn't need that.
But because most everything else is good I feel that this
is the one thing in our marriage I have to go without yet
it is SO important to me? This is the confusing, trapped
feeling I have had our entire marriage and didn't
acknowledge even to myself until 4 years ago.
From: Lynda
Hi Luise, What held us together? The only thing I can
say is that it was that little voice inside I mentioned
in my previous post. No matter how hard I tried to ignore
it, it kept telling me that ending the marriage at that
time was a mistake. It was a leap of faith, nothing less,
that kept me putting one foot in front of the other. It
was sheer agony at times and seemed insane at other
times, but I went one day at a time, knowing that I could
*end it tomorrow*, if I chose, but that day has not
materialized and I hope it never does. I felt like a lot
of women. We had nothing in common, we didn’t share
activities, interests, or even many friends. I was
resentful that I didn’t receive cards, wasn’t
romanced, or get surprises from Bernd. I too, wanted a
soul mate, someone with whom I could share my inner most
self, feel the exhilarating rush of love when I was with
them.
I had a deep friendship with the man I had my affair
with for about a year and a half before we had sex. The
funny thing is, I didn’t even want the sexual part
of our relationship, it was going to complicate things
way to much! I went against everything I believed in, but
I was convinced he was my soulmate, and I didn’t
want to loose the friendship. He was much older than I
and he treated me like a princess. Everything I ever
wanted, he seemed to know and acted on, gifts, cards,
letters, words, paying attention to me. I was in heaven
and at the same time I was in hell! I was so confused. I
won’t bore you with the details right now, but as
soon as I was away from this man, that voice would keep
nagging at me until I finally listened to it. I had hurt
many people, none of whom deserved the pain I ha caused,
but most of all I had hurt myself. I realized that Bernd
and I were married, but we had never become friends, . We
had always been two separate strangers living together. I
started to work on things by trying to treat him as and
get to know him as a friend. It took a lot of time and
stubbornness on my part to hang in there and accept him
as he was, warts and all, just as I had always wanted for
myself. I also found out that I couldn’t give away
what I didn’t already own and did some searching
inside myself.
I hadn’t been much of a friend to him, so how
could I expect friendship from him? I learned acceptance,
to not take personally the fact that he had a hard time
with things I found easy such as little surprises etc. ,
just as I had a hard time with things that came natural
to him. In a way, I guess many people called my
acceptance *settling* ( and still do btw), but I know
different. I look at the fires we have walked thru,
sometimes together, sometimes separately and I am glad I
*settled*. Now if I receive a card or a surprise cup of
coffee, the love that fills my heart and the soft tears
that well up in my eyes, (because I no longer NEED these)
is like nothing I have ever experienced. These things
mean so much more when they are give freely by him and
not because I expect them of him. In fact, my favourite
gift ever is a child’s doll that I got this past
Christmas. You squeeze it and it says *peek-a boo-I love
you*. :) Sure is a far cry from the motorbike, car, house
etc. my *soulmate* gave and offered me. I may be poor,
but I am the richest woman in the world in many ways.
The road back is long an has many twists and turns.
Everyday I have to practice acceptance, some days it is
easier than others, I am only human and I slip and fall
into my “if only” mode. . . . but these times
are shorter and I don’t beat myself up over the as
much. I take time to listen to my Higher Power, to listen
to the little voice inside me, and I reap the rewards
everyday, even if it is a cap put back on the toothpaste.
As a final note, both of us have discovered that once we
stopped NEEDING something, we seemed to all of a sudden
be given just that. We are now working on not *needing*
money.:) Thanks for your reply Love and soft huggggggs.
From: MZET
It’s nice to read from the "silent"
partner. You two have created a fabulous forum for
sharing.
I think my wife’s affair took place in part
because her lover met some very important emotional
needs. Hopefully she will find out what they were,
eventually communicate them to me and then give me the
chance to meet them. It sounds simple but it is so
painful and it takes soooo long…
I think now that she has broken up with her lover, she
is going through hell and hence, I am too, again....
It’s almost like "withdrawal" from alcohol
or drugs. She is inside a shell and doesn’t come
out.
Lynda, did you experience this when you broke up? If
you did, how long did it take you to come out of your
shell and begin to share your feelings with Bernd to
begin the process of restarting the love? What helped you
and what didn’t during this withdrawal period? I
know there is nothing I can do, but what is the best kind
of "nothing"?
Thanks for your sharing.
By the way, my wife and I also hear this "nagging
voice" that has told us all along "don't get
divorced".
From: Barry (aka remorseful)
hi Lynda...your words are both beautiful and
inspiring... perhaps I owe both yourself and Bernd much
more than words can express? thanks for being human and
sharing your wealth of experience and insight... lots of
hugs to you both!! *grin*
From: Kelle
It's been good to hear from you, Lynda. I've been so
impressed with some of Bernd's words--and I probably
initially tapped into this site with at least a little
scepticism. You seemed to have travelled down the path
that I've been standing at the edge and staring at for
years. Like Luise, I have the children and commitment
idea that is the primary 'binding agent', but I'm also
sure there is potential there for much more. But (like we
all seem to have said before), I'm trying to get beyond
the fact that I don't CARE enough to try. These forums
are truly inspirational-- even though at this point it
seems impossible for ME to grow as you have. A big hug
back.
From: luise
Lynda, I'm not sure why you had your affair but I'm
curious to know....did you ever feel about Bernd the ways
you felt about your lover? I mean even in the beginning
of your relationship w/ Bernd. My biggest problem is that
I don't think I've ever felt what I know I should feel
for my spouse! And I honestly don't know how to make it
happen...I lean toward the feeling that it's just a
chemistry that has never clicked. it is so frustrating
and depressing for me. Thanks so much for all your
words.....even tho I know there is not a good answer, if
one at all, it sure helps to see there are others more
similar than I ever thought.
From: Lynda
Luise asked if I ever felt the way about Bernd as I
had with my lover? The answer is NO, I didn’t! Bernd
and I met when I was 19. I had been raped and my life
threatened 1 month earlier. I think that I would have
*wanted* anyone who showed me any amount of caring at
that point.
I wanted to be rescued. In his own way, I think Bernd
was looking to be rescued too. I went out with him on
Sunday, and we pretty much moved in together on Wed., 3
days later. Neither of us had any idea about *love* or
had ever had good role models in our lives. I guess we
thought it came naturally just from being together.
When I began my affair, the feelings were
overwhelming, exhilarating, romance novel stuff. I had
never felt such emotions in all my life, and I was
HOOKED. Just as Mzet so wisely pointed out and has come
to discover from his own experiences, I was addicted! Not
as much to the man, but to the feelings, and it just
happened that it Ws this man that was triggering these
feelings inside me. I spent every hour plotting ways to
see him, talk to him, write letters, ANYTHING, to get my
fix. I wanted my high my fairytale.
The problem is, as with any addiction, soon the *drug*
overtook my life. Nothing was more important, not my
family, friends or my integrity. I gave them all up. I
was able to justify everything, just as an alcoholic or
drug addict can, and I was very good at it!
Actually it was Bernd who pointed out that I was
addicted, and I was very resentful. How DARE he tell me
how I felt and didn’t feel. How DARE he try and
sully my new love and happiness! The problem was, once he
pointed out that possibility......deep in my heart (that
little voice again), I knew it was true. It took a very
long time for me to accept it, because I was so sure that
it had been love. I also started realizing that a
relationship built on such dishonesty was not going to
work. In fact, I had moved in with my lover for 2 weeks
and as long as he was there everything was great. I had
all the wonderful feelings and endorphin rushes I could
handle, but when he was at work or otherwise not there, I
was empty, lonely, and the pain of what I was doing and
had done hit me like a ton of bricks. I moved back home.
I was now ready to start searching for answers, to
find out some truths about love and happiness. To maybe
answer some of your questions Mzet......I went through
terrible withdrawal. I wanted so much to just let go and
never see or talk to him again. I knew how much I was
hurting myself and him for that matter. It was
excruciating! I slipped many times, calls,contact,
driveby’s. I did them all. The quilt and self
loathing I felt everytime I did was awful. there were
times I actually thought about suicide, because I was
sure I would never get out of the hell I was in.
I wanted so much to commit, for the first time, to my
marriage and to be true to myself. It was so damn hard. I
had a real difficult time wit intimacy with Bernd because
ANY closeness with him just brought all the quilt and
shame of what I had done to the surface and I didn’t
want to feel more pain in my life. I wanted him to hug
me, to hold me, cuddle me, but I was unable to because I
was positive it would give him the impression that I
wanted sex...and that was the last thing I could handle.
Luckily, he was into recovery and was able to talk to
his therapist about what he was going thru while I was
stumbling along. His immense patience was a major reason
that I was able to hang in thru the worst times and not
give up. For me, it started turning around for us with
*talking*. We did a little exercise where one talked for
5 minutes while the other only listened. We could talk
about anything, as long as it was about us and not the
other person. Also we each had a journal and wrote back
and forth to each other in it. It was a safe way for us,
who had difficulty *speaking* how we felt.
You asked Mzet, how long it took me? to be be
honest....to totally *get clean* of my lover took about 2
years or more! I know that sounds like a lifetime, but it
doesn’t mean our relationship continued that long,
but that it took that long before I could honestly say I
was no longer drawn to him. I was in recovery, read a
library of books, and cried endlessly and kept going one
foot in foot of the other.
Even when Bernd left a year later, I refused to resume
the affair because I knew the reasons would be all wrong.
It would be to dull the pain that I needed to feel, to
embrace and transform into love for myself, for Bernd if
he was my partner or not...with 3 kids we would always
have a relationship of *some* kind. It was by him letting
me go ( he even helped me pack) that I came back, and I
think by me accepting that he was gone, and loving him
regardless that we found our way back together.
what I feel for him now is something I never knew was
possible. It isn’t stuff books are written about,
although maybe there should be. It is a pure love. I love
him simply because HE IS, good and bad. I was able to
rebuilt the intimacy and feel safe. This may sound crazy
but sex now is almost a spiritual experience. I can fee
what I want and the love I have for him and for myself
brings me to a doorway that I am sure reads *heaven*. I
would never trade this spiritual connection for what I
had with my lover, no matter how nice those feelings
might have been. They were like driving a scooter and now
I am in a cadillac:)
It was only by starting to love *myself* that I was
able to truly start loving Bernd for who he is. This is
out there for anyone willing to search, accept, walk
through the fires and be honest with themselves. It is a
painful process, but I would never trade one moment id it
was the only way to get to be the person that I am today!
I apologize for the length of this post, but once I
start writing and sharing I can’t stop:) Pretty good
for a gal who never allowed anyone to know what was going
on in her life or heart for 25 years eh?? I still
can’t believe this is me. My life is an open book
now, and ANY questions you may have., I will try to
answer as honestly as possible. thanks for sharing with
us.
Soft Hugggs.
From: MZET
Wow! I know this will help me and others going through
the hell of ending an affair. Thanks for sharing. Take
care.
From: MZET
Lynda: I have read this entry so many times….I
think I account for half the visits to this page this
month….It has really helped. Thanks. I do have a few
questions to clarify some points you make. You wrote that
for you two the turn around started with the
"talking" exercise wherein each of you talked
for five minutes while the other one listened. Then you
write that you could talk about anything as long as it
was about "both of us and not the other
person".
Questions: Who is "the other", your partner
OR your lover? And how far after you broke up with your
lover were you able to face taking like that to Bernd?
How did you know you were ready to come out of your shell
and talk? How did Bernd know? Were you prompted by Bernd,
your therapist or yourself? Other than Bernd’s
patience and ability to totally let go (which I really
wish I had now--I’m working on it every hour of the
day), was there anything else he did (or could have done)
that helped you during your withdrawal from your lover?
I'm trying hard.... Take care, and thanks.
From: Lynda
Hi Mzet! When I mentioned the talking exercised, it
was 5 minutes to talk about ME only. My thoughts, my
memories, my feelings etc.. My sentences were I feel, I
remember and so on. It was not a time to talk about Bernd
or my lover. I found this very difficult at first. I was
not used to focusing on me and me alone without trying to
lay blame on someone.*grin*. At first I had Bernd close
his eyes, or turn away. I did not want him looking at me
while I talked. The first few tries I didn’t make
the 5 minutes, and I spoke about nothing *deep*, just
some childhood memories and past experiences. It was a
while before I felt safe in exposing who I really was, so
I waded in the shallow end to see how the water felt!
it’s not WHAT you say that’s important, but the
fact that these 5 minutes are yours to say what you want
and not be corrected or interrupted. It opens up the
communication gridlock we fall into at times. We began
reading any books we could get our hands on to
relationships.....taking the parts that rang true for us
and started to try and put them into practice.
The time factor is a hard one to answer. I moved home,
and a year later Bernd moved out. It was during that year
together that we started searching, but I was still so
addicted that I was only doing a half ass job. I
wasn’t doing it FOR ME. That was the key! I was
still *on the fence* as far as real commitment to MYSELF.
I was too afraid of being hurt again. I needed a good
kick in the backside and I got it!!!
When he left, I had some recovery under my belt and
realized that even though it felt like I wasn’t
getting anywhere, I HAD soaked up some tidbits here and
there that I was able to start putting into practice.
With him no longer here I was left with a lot of time and
less distraction from what I really needed to do. I cried
a river,( very cleansing for me) and got angry. I
wasn’t angry AT anyone, just angry at EVERYTHING. It
was through this anger that came my strength. I am
smiling even now as I remember the feeling of power
within myself I felt that first time.
I was ready to heal for ME, not for Bernd not for the
kids but for ME. I was sick and tired of being sick and
tired. I went to the bookstore and was lead to Scott
Peck’s book The Road Less Travelled. It became my
bible. With this new strength came a calmness, a peace
that I knew I could feel again even in the most difficult
situations. During the 6 weeks Bernd was gone, I called
up that feeling many times to give me the courage to move
ahead and not fall back.
My lover was just as addicted and hearing that I was
alone, phoned,drove-by etc. to try to get me to restart
the affair.I was finally able to say it was not good for
me and really FEEL it. So now he was pissed at me too. No
matter, I was going to be true to myself for once in my
life. Bernd and I talked, saw each other at out support
group meetings and continued to treat each other with
love and honesty. He let me know when he wasn’t
going to come back and that he had a relationship he was
exploring. I grieved for the things we would no longer
share but I let him go, with love ,the best I could.
When we got back together,it was through a commitment
we had to ourselves. we wanted to become more loving to
ourselves, to each other and to others we met.
That’s when I was able to open up much more. I
needed a safe place to speak, I needed to know that he
would not get angry or reject me for anything I might say
that would allow him to get to know me fully. We gave
each other these things the best we could and went from
there. So, if you are looking for a time frame.....for
me, it took a year of exploring, stumbling and hitting
dead ends before I was ready to take the leap of faith
and put my heart and soul into true recovery.
Was I prompted? Yes! My therapist(s), Bernd, and books
I was reading all were telling me that I had to *come out
of my shell*, but I wasn’t ready until I was
ready,simple as that. I knew in my gut ( damn little
voice*grin*) it was a truth, but it was a great leap of
faith for me to open myself up and be vulnerable. My past
had taught me well, that to leave myself vulnerable was
to set myself up for more pain. I had to *unlearn* many
things and one was that many of the *tapes* that played
in my head were lies.
There really wasn’t much Bernd could do for me
during my insanity, other that keep out of my way. He did
what he had to for HIMSELF (such as leaving), he had his
own insanity to deal with. the thing that helped me the
most was the safe place he was able to give me when I was
ready to talk and the freedom to have whatever feelings I
had. I had to learn that FEELING ISN’T DOING, that
all my feelings were ok, the good and the bad. He was not
going to leave simply because of something I *said*. I
needed to learn to trust that no matter how scary it was.
My background is unique to me, just as your
wife’s is to her. My timetable won’t be
her’s, but one thing is.........Bernd and I did most
of our stumbling on our own (and have the scars to show
it*smile*). that is the main reason for this forum, to
perhaps *jumpstart* someone else’s search for truth
and love by all of us sharing what we have discovered.
Example is the best teacher, and we could find none when
we began. I hold my candle out to light yours and by
passing on the light of love we will find our way through
even the darkest hours.
Hang in there for as long as it feels right to you. WE
are no different than anybody else, merely human. Keep
asking questions, keep searching Mzet, for YOU.
Big ‘ol soft hugggs.
From: MZET
Lynda: I have thought many times about leaving also,
or more precisely, moving out. In fact, I have talked to
my wife about it….I know it would help me and she
says it would help her, but wouldn’t that be the
easy way?, I keep asking myself. Plus, I wouldn’t be
moving out to start another relationship, so the
"leaving" part wouldn’t be too
convincing... And another relationship is the last thing
I want to mess around with right now…I have enough
on the plate with mine and hers and hers and her lover...
I have the feeling that the "the kick in the
backside" that got you to commit to yourself and got
you out of sitting on the fence, comes unannounced and is
unplanned by the other partner. I know that in my case
reality will be a better kicker than my best loving (or
not-so-loving) intentions.
My mind and my heart are telling me to wait for as
long as it takes. My ego is telling me to cut my losses
and start a new life, divorced. My oldest child asks me
why I seem so sad, crying all the time. People who work
for me are wondering why I’ve been so absent minded.
People I work for wonder why I call in sick so often now.
My bicycle racing buddy’s want to know what kind of
weight loss program I’m using. My wife doesn’t
seem to acknowledge me much these days. And my damned
little voice inside of me is telling me to hang in there.
You know, I’m so confused, I’m starting to
think I am just as screwed-up and insane as my wife...
I think I see your candle lighting mine. I just hope
the tears don’t extinguish my flame.
From: Bernd
There's a difference between moving out, and leaving.
I "left" to get more quiet time, and less
distraction from the turmoil of our relationship, so that
I could hear those inner whispers better, because I
realized by then that was the only guidance which could
really help me find loving choices for myself, and Lynda.
I handled my "away time" very imperfectly, but
it isn't perfection that's important - it's just giving
each step my best guess, and trying to get the best
handle I can on the guidance from inside.
Part of the tears you are shedding, and I suspect much
of the sadness, comes from trapdoors leaking old pain
that existed before your marriage; in my case, a lot of
that pain had been buried so deep, I didn't become aware
of it until our marriage struggles hit the
"open" switch. But it was my attempts at trying
to numb that pain on an unconscious level that fuelled
many of my "bad" choices. Lynda's affair was in
that sense a wonderful blessing, because it ripped open
those trap doors and made it impossible to ignore how
much that OLD pain was still hurting me. The new stuff
paled in comparison.
I sense a sad little boy inside, who is scared that
he'll never be really loved for who he really is - and
the adult in you, no matter how much you logically know
this isn't true - isn't able to ease that boy's pain as
much as you want to right now. You know the best way to
ease the pain of a child? Let him cry. Give him full
permission. Hug him while he does. Let him know you share
his sorrow; don't try to persuade him everything will be
ok. It will someday, but that is something he needs to
feel, not hear, for himself. And more you share his grief
over the many losses he and you have felt over your life,
the more healing will take place. It doesn't rain
forever, but if the clouds try to hold in the moisture,
it will stay cloudy and gloomy until it DOES rain. Make
some rainbows. It's not only ok to feel sadness; it's a
very kind and caring thing you give to yourself when you
let those tears roll. They will ease on their own,
without any other effort on your part.
Wanted to say this, because your posting touched my
little boy inside.
From: kelle
Lynda--Your frank and wonderful post prompted me to
ask a question I've been wanting to pose for a while now:
when is an affair an affair? I've not tried to be
dishonest by implying (to this point) that my problems
are all confined to me, my spouse, and our apathy.
Certainly, there is enough right there to indicate a
troubled marriage, and I believe that we could 'clean up
our own house' and we'd be just fine.
You'll probably disagree with that, though, when I
finally admit my attraction to another man.
"Outsider" and I have come short of admitting
our feelings for each other, but either because he is a
Christian with incredible faith (and recognizes that I
have similar faith but diminished 'strength'), or because
he truly is uninterested in me :), we've never laid our
feelings on the table in frank language. He seems to try
hard to protect me from a mistake that he doesn't want to
see me make, in spite of my feelings (and maybe his?).
Mostly, we get by by simply avoiding each other. Sounds
like a crush, I know, but I've been fighting my feelings
for 2 years or more.
I responded to your post because I think in many ways
mine is very much an addiction, as was yours. No doubt
about it, 'outsider' is an awesome and upstanding
individual, and someone I'm sure that his God is very
proud of. There are so many times that I've asked God to
completely control our chance encounters,etc., not
because I think I would 'lose my head', but more because
I'm afraid of losing my heart. I'm not seeking a sexual
relationship at all, but I have difficulty defining
exactly what I AM looking for. I think I just want him to
know what an incredible individual I see in him, and
maybe I'd like to know where I stand with him as well.
Some days I tell myself that sounds pretty innocent. . .
on the other hand it's a pretty ungrateful attitude
considering that the spouse/gift I was given by God is
someone else.
And while I see this as a very separate issue from the
problems my husband and I are experiencing, a realistic
person will surely disagree. Maybe that's just what I
need to hear.
I've had a real hard time presenting this like I would
want to, but I've witnessed how others of you out there
have [compassionately] helped us sort out our feelings,
even if they aren't feelings we're proud of. The bottom
line is, my lack of feelings for my spouse was a problem
long before there was an outsider, and solving
'outside(r) issues' will NOT make me feel any more in
love with my spouse. When you're constantly fighting a
'love addiction', though and at the same time hiding
marital discord from everyone you know, it is SUCH a
lonely feeling. Since all of you have helped alleviate
some of the loneliness, I just decided to share more.
Thanks for listening.
ONE LAST THING! Your story, Lynda, is incredible! and
the love you have achieved (and the work you did to find
it) is such an inspiration! I am so intrigued and am
increasingly hopeful that I may be inspired to try so
hard myself. . . You are a blessing!
From: Lynda
Thank you for your kind words Kelle, but I am an
imperfect human being who has discovered some things that
have helped me and wish to pass them along to anyone who
may hear the same echoes inside themselves.*smile*
When is an affair an affair? I think depending on who
you ask, you will get a number of opinions. I believe
that if a relationship we have with someone is causing us
to be dishonest and to behave in ways that are not good
for US, then the alarm bells ring to allow us to examine
and see what they are trying to tell us. It sounds like
you have some alarm bells going off inside you and are
trying to *rationalize them away. I too, did that, but it
only quieted them down for a little while. Be as honest
with yourself as you can about your feelings for
*outsider*, and for your husband, and about what kind of
relationship you want from each of them.(remember:
feeling ISN”T doing). Write them down and reread
them, you can always tear them up later. I find that by
writing things down, sometimes my Higher Power gets a
chance to add his two cents worth and I get a clearer
perspective on things. I don’t believe that just
because a person gets married that they can no longer
form opposite sex friendships. It’s in the choices
we make in these friendships that the real tests lie. We
can never have too many friends...male or female.
However, with you feeling so lonely and empty inside
your marriage, finding a friend who is *awesome and
upstanding*, likely magnifies 100 times what you feel you
don’t have in your life. the people we are attracted
to are very good mirrors for us, including your husband.
If you were in a solid relationship with your husband,
you very likely would not have posted this share, because
you would feel secure enough within *yourself* to know
that in any friendships you made you would make the most
loving choices for you, and they would automatically be
the best for your husband too. Affairs are not the most
loving choice for us, they hurt us! Even *emotional*
ones, as you have described. The *addiction* has ruled
you for the past 2 years, and I suspect it’s hold is
increasing.
Ask yourself where do you want to be 5 years from now?
the same swamp I was in...hiding marital discord....or
FREE? I hid our problems from everybody, we had the
*perfect marriage to outsiders. I could imagine no fate
worse than everybody knowing my business. As you can see,
I was able to get past that *grin*.( it wasn’t
easy,but I did it)
I don’t know anything about your marriage or if
*outsider* is married or otherwise involved with someone,
and I don’t like to give advice, but I have been on
that same fence you are on and it can get pretty darn
uncomfortable. A great book to start looking for answers
is Women Who Love To Much, don’t let the title scare
you, it is an excellent starting point.
When you are ready, you will know what it is that you
have to do for YOU. that little voice is insistent and
doesn’t go away, as I think you are discovering. The
more calm you can find within yourself through reading,
sharing, prayer etc. the more your choices will be made
out of love and not fear. I have walked a few miles in
your shoes, and I KNOW how painful and scary it can be to
start examining who we are and what we really want. We
all deserve to be happy with who we are, and to be loved
for who we are. I hope this may have answered your
question, keep in touch and take care.
Soft Huggs
From: Bernd
Kelle, there may be a bit of irony to your sentence
“There are so many times that I've asked God to
completely control our chance encounters”. Have you
ever thought that maybe those prayers are being answered,
but for a reason different from what you originally
wanted? It sounds like this man has brought a real
awareness to you that there is something very important
missing in your life, and your attraction to him has been
the catalyst for some deep soul searching, and reaching
out. Sounds very much like God’s work to me!:)
God may very well be answering your prayers by
“accidentally” guiding you to MORE encounters,
not less, with this man. Those encounters would keep the
turmoil you feel front and center, and you seem to be
handling that turmoil in exactly the way you need to - by
not making the seemingly “easy” choice of going
for a possible affair. You are hanging in there with
healthy confusion, and doubt, and soul searching. To me,
they are all healthy reactions, because
“Confusion” is really the name of that rickety
old carriage that carries us along the path of truth. It
may seem as if it can’t take us anywhere helpful,
but then again, who would have thought a carpenter’s
son could change the world?:)
What you said is very true about “solving
'outside(r) issues' will NOT make me feel any more in
love with my spouse”. But this isn’t an
“outside” issue. It has a whole lot to do with
who you are “inside”, and what hopes, dreams,
and longings are behind the emptiness you feel. Much of
my emptiness came from my lack of awareness of how much
my past was ruling my present choices, and how much I was
looking for Lynda (and other women) to fill my emptiness,
instead of healing it through rebuilding a healthy
relationship with my true self. What I don’t heal
continues to pain me, and we’ve all learned how to
numb that pain in ways that just mask it for a while.
If you continue your commitment to make choices with
integrity, then talking to the man you have the
attraction for may very likely become easier, and you may
find a way to transform your attraction to him from an
obsession to a caring friendship that is 1000 times more
rewarding. God works in mysterious ways, and our minds
are no match when it comes to trying to figure out how!
One of the simplest prayers I use is “God, lead
me to where you want me to go.” It has helped me in
a lot of situations to surrender and just let the gentle
breeze guide me, a tiny step at a time.
You’re doing better than you realize girl.
From: Luise
Hi Lynda, You're words are a comfort when I've always
looked at things as being black and white. I need
clarification though....what if your heart is telling you
to "go for" the full fledged affair because
you're emotional needs are have not been met in your
marriage? What then about your marriage vows and what if
the affair makes you desire divorce where as if you held
off you would perhaps be able to stick it out until the
kids are grown? I can imagine being more miserable after
an affair because of proof that I would then know what I
had been missing. At what point is any part of an affair
breaking an ten commandment...sex only? sexual desire?
just sharing deep feelings with each other? confusion is
right!
From: Bernd
Just a thought Luise...I suspect that your heart is
telling you loud and clear that "your emotional
needs are not being met". In my case, it was my mind
that was translating this into "it's Lynda's
fault", and "I can get them them met with
another woman". That's the example around us, and
few of us ever suspected that we could possibly find a
way of filling that emptiness inside by a process called
"recovery and healing" - not until the damn
pain brought the other route to a screeching halt that
is. The affair looks like the easier and more promising
route, but it is a very deceptive mirage.
Lynda couldn't give me what I was unwilling to give
myself - freedom from past shame, emptiness, hurt, and
lost hopes. By the way, it was really a good thing she
stopped trying, because the roller coaster I was on -
without knowing it - was picking up speed downhill fast.
My relationship with myself has been lots more
frustrating than anything I ever blamed Lynda for, but
it's where I found the key out of my cage.
Just my 2 bits.:)
From: MZET
Hi Luise. I know it's hard to believe, but if you are
having a "platonic" affair (i.e., you are just
in love but have had no sex yet) and you think that
having sex will make things better, you are absolutely
wrong. It makes everything much much worse, particularly
the PAIN to your spouse and, again, hard to believe, but
also the PAIN to yourself.
It's just not worth it, but how con you (or anyone
else in your situation) learn from other people????? You
get up to a level where you just rationalize everything
and then there is no stopping you...That's why you are
blaming your husband for the affair, i.e., "he's not
meeting my needs". But who's fault is that, really?
Vows? I've always wondered what my wife thinks about
them. Again, they are rationalized away. Morality is the
first thing to go out the window when your hormones take
over.
Would you want a divorce after an affair? Not sure you
will. You'll probably want the best of both worlds. My
wife has never wanted a divorce. I have. Chances are it
will be your husband who may seek one.
The affair will make you feel worse not because you
"think" it is true love (you'll find out it was
not) nor because you'll "know what you are
missing", but because of the double life you'll be
living. This will eat you up alive. You will be in so
much turmoil, you might even consider suicide as an
option.
At what point are you braking the commandments?
Remember that any sense of morality will be the first
thing to go out. You will rationalize everything. If you
cannot answer that question now, you'll never even ask it
during the affair.
My advise, as someone who is going through it right
now, as we speak, don't do it. Work on the marriage
instead. Work hard. It will be a lot easier now than
after you have slept with your lover. But then again, I
and everyone else around her (family, therapist, etc.)
got blue in the face saying that to my wife. Now we are
both going through the worse time of our lives, a true
hell.
Don't do it! Get that guy out of your life now before
it's too late.
Take care.
From: kelle
whoa, Bernd. The insights I have gotten from you,
Lynda, MZET, and others in these posts have been
amazingly insightful. Maybe we ALL have the answers
inside of us, but 1)the comfort of finally having someone
to talk to, and 2) the thoughtful and compassionate
responses that you guys are able to compose HAVE led me
to a point where things may truly be getting 'better than
I realize'. That aside, what a neat perspective you've
offered THIS time! I do believe God does answer all
prayers in the way they SHOULD be answered, but I am
often confused by those answers nonetheless. For example,
why doesn't he help me abolish these 'addicted' feelings
that he doesn't want me to have in the first place? Your
response presented a potential answer to that question
that I'd never considered before. This Outsider has been
a truly good close friend--it just takes some careful
dancing on my part (both of our parts?) to make sure that
it stays on the right side of obsession. After reading
your thoughts, I see that maybe I should take my head out
of the sand and face this all--just as cautiously as
before--but with an open eye and an ear to the ground for
what God's real answer has been. THANKS, ((Bernd))!
From: Bernd
Thanks for the kind comments. Your posting triggered
another thought.
I was so thirsty for answers and understanding while I
was going through my "insanity" period, that
often I'd wail at God for not "fixing things,
damnit!". But faith and patience are essential to
recovery, because I can't hear inner whispers when I'm
grinding my wheels - those wheels make too much noise!
What I discovered is that God gives us the
understanding we need, when we're ready for it. Because
until we're ready for it, we can easily interpret
"answers" in ways that just get us into more
trouble - and then we blame God for getting us into even
more hot water.
Knowing that I would get each understanding when I was
ready helped me a lot to let go of the need to know. I
was able to let go of trying to figure out the
impossible, and know that it would come to me on God's
schedule, not mine. The day I think I'm better at
determining that schedule than he/she is, is the day I
become a politician! Ha!
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