 Troubled relationship with a
friend of the opposite sex - Confused
I have had a working relationship with a woman for
about 10 years. In the last three we have become close
friends sharing our problems and feelings. Last year at
this time we told each other that we loved each other. We
are both married to other people. About 6 months ago we
got physically too close. Since then we have struggled to
keep our friendship going, but I feel her trying to pull
away from me. I really want her friendship, and I don't
want to stumble again physically with her. I really
thought she loved me and I thought I loved her. But now I
am really having problems of feeling jealousy when she
talks to another man at work and when she tries to ignore
my requests to get together and talk out our problems.
This is nearly driving me crazy. Am I in a case of
co-dependency and what should I do? Please help me!
 From: MZET
I am not sure if you are in a case of co-dependency or
not (I am not a therapist), but I do know that most
affairs are like an addiction. Treat it like one. I also
do know that you have to ask yourself: do you want to
save your marriage or not? If the answer is no, there is
not much I can tell you (I just have not travelled down
that road). If the answer is yes, I think you (and your
wife) have a lot of work ahead of you.
You are obviously still in love with your co-worker
and the continued desire for friendship, your feelings of
jealousy, etc. are proof of this. She seems to want to
break up with you, perhaps because she does want to save
her marriage. Therefore, she may see no reason to get
together with you to talk about problems. The problem is
you, the problem is talking with you about your problems,
and the solution is not to re-start a relationship, even
friendly one, with you. If you want to save your marriage
too, you should do the same: get your lover out of your
life.
Once you make a decision to get over her, you may go
through a period of withdrawal. Not much I can say about
it other than it is hell. Read some of the other postings
on this issue. Work on the marriage. Again, read some of
the other postings in this forum. You will find that some
of us believe that one of the reasons affairs take place
is that spouses do not meet the other’s important
emotional needs. You need to find what they are. In other
words, what were you getting from your co-worker that you
did not get from your wife? Once you find that out, get
your wife involved and communicate those to her. Give her
a chance to meet those needs. You may also find out that
you were not meeting some very important needs either and
that you will have to work on this issue too.
This may sound easy, but it will be extremely
difficult, particularly because you both have to go
through the trauma of dealing with the affair itself
first. Take one day at a time. Realize that it will take
time, a long time, but that the result may be infinitely
more rewarding than your affair or the
"friendship" with your lover.
Go to the Marriage Builder’s WWW site. Read every
page of it, particularly the Q&A pages on infidelity.
Good luck and take care.
From: Confused
Thanks for your comments. They were helpful. We are in
a situation where I can't totally get her out of my life
unless I completely changed jobs. My marriage is well
worth saving. I am just having problems dealing with the
emotionalism of everything. Maybe it would be better to
just let things go, go on, and not expect much out of the
friendship. Its really tough. I felt if was a
co-dependent relationship in that I was looking for her
to satisfy a majority of my needs instead of my wife. I
would like Bernd to address my situation also.
From: drew
Confused: I hear you! I have been on the 'women's'
side of that fence you're on (still am!), and I
understand a lot of your turmoil! If you've been a
student of these pages for long, you may have come to
respect--as I have-- that MZET may not be a therapist,
but that his answers DO offer a lot of therapy. I
certainly agree with his idea of it being an addiction,
and like others who have visited this page, I agree that
it's hell to kick the habit! But those who have been
there and have shared their thoughts with us here have
convinced me that I may be able to find that happiness in
my own marriage if I REALLY work at it. (For now, I'm
still working at believing that can work in my home, but
I AM trying!)
Just wanted to say hang in there, Confused, and to let
you know how I would feel if I were your co-worker. I'd
just want you to know that my feelings for you haven't
changed, but I've realized the danger of continuing this
relationship. I'd want you to respect how hard it is to
keep my distance, just as much as I'd want you to
remember how great I think you are!
Passing on one of Bernd's big cyber hugs and hoping it
fills the void.
From: Bernd
I’d like to suggest first of all that you read my
posting “Love vs. the Feeling of Love”, and see
if anything strikes a chord there.
I think we are all capable of “loving” more
people than our partner- indeed, it’s a wonderful
part of our natural being. The swamp appears when we mix
attempts at loving choices with dishonesty, secrecy, and
betrayal. It’s not unlike Snow White getting a
delicious apple with poison in it.
What is really happening when we “fall in
love” with a new potential partner? I’ve
struggled with this in the past myself, and found a
magical way THRU this dilemma that has taught me a lot
about what is really behind these powerful emotions we
feel. (Note: just a reminder, these are just my best
guesses).
When someone is attracted to us, or returns our
special attention, our hearts get a powerful rush of
“I really AM loveable”. If we’ve been
doubting that - especially because of struggles in our
main relationship - having that truth reinforced inside
us fills us with magic, and a rush of wonderful feelings.
And the truth IS we ARE loveable, even when we doubt we
are. But many of us need to have proof of that, through
someone else’s eyes.
If our new love suddenly creates some distance, inside
of us they also take that “proof” with them,
and suddenly we are left again with that old doubt, and
hidden deep fear that we aren’t really worthy of
being loved, and we’ll always have fight tooth and
nail for every meaningful scrap of love we can. It’s
like being shown the door to heaven, and then having it
slammed in our face. No wonder we feel so hurt, empty,
and lost.
But it isn’t the other person that’s ripping
that truth from us. It’s ourselves. We have been so
used to doubting, that the only “proof” we have
for how loveable we are has always rested in someone
else’s hands. It’s time to take that back.
That’s what I did.
Whenever I felt “rushes” of love for anyone
but Lynda, I finally recognized where they were really
coming from. I was letting myself believe I WAS loveable
- not only in my head, but in my heart and soul. They
didn’t depend on anyone else. I could have them
ANYTIME I wanted them! When I started taking ownership of
those feelings - singing inside “I’m loveable,
I’m loveable!” - then I no longer
“needed” to get that from another woman. In
fact, I could be happy when I did, because each time
someone else “triggered” that truth and those
feelings inside me, they helped me dance some more
inside!
A huge part of my struggle over secrecy and dishonesty
dissolved, because I knew the source of my “in
love” feelings really came from inside me, and were
about me. You could say I learned how to feel in love
with myself , in a very healthy healing way.
You don’t need to struggle with what you’re
going to do about your new attraction. Your real struggle
is whether you are going to take the huge leap of faith
that your feelings are really coming from you, TO you.
She is just a pretty neat catalyst! If you can take that
leap of faith, find a private place, and dance and giggle
and whisper or shout to yourself “I’m having
love affair with myself - for the first time!” It
may sound and feel foolish at first, but when you
consider the alternatives, it’s really not that bad,
huh?:)
Hope this helps a bit.
From: MZET
I feel like that guy in that beer commercial: I love
you man! You are always on the money!
What you are saying not only applies to the one having
an affair, but to the "hurt" partner. When my
wife said "I love somebody else, not you", I
also felt that the door to heaven was being slammed. In
desperation, I tried to hold on to any sign of the heaven
beyond that threshold, even if it meant doing things I
knew deep down inside would hurt her, would violate her
freedom and privacy and she would interpret as control.
You are right, she did not slam that door. I did. But
it is sooo difficult to really take possession of that
"proof" of one's being loveable. I guess part
of the struggle and part of what makes getting over an
affair such a lengthy period of stay in hell (despite the
analogy of slamming the door of heaven!) is that our
brains, our feelings and our genes are not wired to GET
THIS easily. Only the pain that love unveils can do it.
"To love unconditionally". "To love
others, LIKE WE LOVE OURSELVES". What do these
phrases mean? I am not sure of the answers, but I do know
they must be somehow related to the pain couples struggle
with. Perhaps it is that we ultimately recognize that our
loving others is not dependent on the paradigm that says
that love is the rush of endorphins we feel we get from
OTHERS. The rush comes and can be triggered, indeed must
perhaps be triggered, like you seem to say, from WITHIN.
I know, somehow, that that is becoming a new paradigm for
me. It is only when we get there, when we take that leap
of faith, that "unconditional love" and
"to love ourselves" makes any sense at all.
Until then, we are just takers, not real givers and, I
believe, what we call loving others is not really LOVING
but WANTING. Take care.
From: Bernd
We've been drilled, and drilled, and we still keep
getting drilled that we have to "earn" love, or
deserve it, or be good enough for it. No wonder we have
such a hard time letting go of that bullshit. It means
going against the tide..in a major way. But then again,
doesn't that "tide" have a little in common
with lemmings?????:)
Loved your post Mzet!
From: kelle
I'm with you, MZET. You and Bernd keep outdoing each
other as my 'favourite overall post', and Bernd
definitely gets the travelling trophy here. Your ideas in
the past have certainly help me deal with my issues, but
this one helps make complete SENSE of my internal
craziness. In this case, that knowledge was the most
LIBERATING feeling--I have felt wonderful today!
The good news/bad news is that I figured out that this
'need to be loved' was exactly what I was experiencing
when I got married! (I even wanted it in my vows, but our
minister pointed out that it reeked of 'conditional
love.' He was right, of course, and his observation
disturbed me then--has haunted me ever since--and
resurfaced again today.) Which is not to say that I still
can't straighten out my feelings re: myself, or even
those within my marriage. It DOES point out to me,
however, that I surely married for the wrong reason.
(Fortunately, I still like the guy, so maybe there is
hope!)
I can't thank you two enough. Your answers HAVE to be
divinely inspired.
From: Bernd
Just a little postscript to your share Kelle...if you
ARE loveable, simply because you exist, then is there a
chance that may be true of your partner as well? And if
so, maybe the reason you got married doesn't really
matter a whole bunch of beans. Maybe there's a golden
window waiting, one where you discover how easy it is to
love someone else - anyone, including your husband - once
you discover how easy it really is to love yourself.
I'll duck the brick now.:)
From: MZET
I have also come to the same conclusion: that the
reason why we GET married is not as important as the
reason we STAY married, and that those reasons, like a
wave or a set of waves, change over time. The trick is to
ride the waves playfully, always staying slightly ahead
so you don't get crushed...Unfortunately, learning can
only take place by taking the risk getting crushed...And
you do. (It reminds me of something I tell bicycle riders
who are starting to race: There are two kinds of bicycle
riders: those who have crashed and those who will)
I think we naively buy into the illusion that the
person we marry is the best and most compatible person we
will ever meet. That illusion begins to fade away very
early in the marriage and it is shattered with an affair.
Paradoxically, the affair revives that illusion all over
again for both the person having the affair and the
"hurt" spouse. It makes it seem even more real;
this time, the object of the illusion is the lover (i.e.,
I now "love" my lover so much he or she must be
the "right" person for me; or, my spouse
"loves" the lover so much now, I must not be
the "right" person. But eventually this whole
illusion explodes in front of our faces. At least it did
on mine.
The reality is, I think, otherwise, that love is a
choice, etc., etc., read other posts...etc.
PS: Bernd, why do we always say the "hurt"
partner when we attempt to identify who's who in an
affair? Is there a linguistic judgement the experts (and
us) fall into with this choice of words? Isn't the pain
eventually felt by both spouses? You've been on both
sides of the fence, am I right, or is there a difference
in the intensity of the pain or in the type of pain? (By
the way, I have always felt, perhaps until now, that the
pain of the "hurt" partner is worse because at
least the one having the affair is having a lot of fun
while he or she is with the lover)
From: Confused
I just wanted to take some time to thank each of you
for what you have said. It has all helped me immensely.
To: MZET, your comments helped to bring me back to
reality. You put your assessment in terms that really
helped me to see what my situation was. And you are
right, it is sort of an addiction and it is very hard to
get over. Emotions have come out of me I never thought I
would ever see, and most of them were not pretty. Thanks.
To Bernd, I don't know you very well, but you hit the
nail on the head with me in several ways. I have
struggled with low self-esteem, and thought it hard to
believe that someone else would love me or be attracted
to me. Once when I was with her I told her I couldn't
believe someone as beautiful as her would be attracted to
me. She looked at me with a very puzzled look and said
"Why do you always put yourself down?". I think
part of what I felt for her was love, and another part
was the need to feel loved by another person. And, I
think this is also true with her. Her husband doesn't
show her the love and concern that he should, and she
turned to me to have some of that fulfilled. I know now
that I need to love myself more, and to realize I'm not
that awful person who had an affair.
To drew, Wow. You really helped me a lot. I can't tell
you how much your comments to me meant. It would be great
if what you said about me had really come from her. It
also helps me a lot to know that other people have had
the same feelings and gone through the same things.
All three of you are an answer to much prayer. I know
what I did was wrong, but I didn't realize the emotional
turmoil it would cause in my life. The woman and I are
still friends, but we have definitely cooled it. We want
to work together, but always in a context where nothing
will happen. There is still an uneasiness there between
us, but I think with time, it will heal. I just wish
there was some way we could discuss some of the things
that we have talked about here on this page. It might
happen, but maybe not. If it doesn't, I know that I can
deal with it.
This page is a real godsend. I was looking for
something like this when I stumbled on it the other day.
I doubt there is anyway I could have talked to anyone
about this. Being able to share by feelings and thoughts
and yet have my anonymity has been fantastic. Thanks so
much to the three of you. Keep it up. I will keep reading
and writing when I can. May God bless.
From: MZET
Confused: I have not been on your side of the fence
and hope I never will, but my experience from my wife's
affair and what she is going through tells me that
perhaps it is best to avoid the temptation of talking to
your lover (or ex?) about your emotions, otherwise the
attraction will bubble up all over again. Remember, a
little crack cocaine or a little alcohol does not help
the addict who is trying to quit...
Let the pain of your sadness, your loneliness and your
hurt come through instead: that will heal you. Talking to
your lover is just a temporary pain killer at best.
From: drew
Bless YOU, Confused! I have been mooching wonderfully
therapeutic ideas from these pages for weeks; it's cool
to think I could have made someone feel as pleased as I
have as a result of reading a post.
Much of your reply (especially to Bernd) is something
I could have written myself. Both Bernd and MZET are
right (at least in my case); it is an addiction, and it
does stem from my failure to see love in myself. (AND my
failure to get the feeling of being loved from my
spouse.)
It doesn't matter that I am not your co-worker,
Confused: I could be her, for as closely as our
situations match. But like you, I wish it was MY
office-mate that calls himself 'Confused': I so want just
to know where I stand.
I'm with you, too, in wishing that I could share my
new-found understanding with him, as much as I've ALWAYS
wished I could share my true feelings with him. But I
believe that MZET's wife is probably correct (it agrees
with what others here have stated), that we would do best
to not stir things up with that kind of a revelation.
If you want to celebrate the positive things that have
come from our sharing, how about joining us in a toast
tonight to Bernd, Lynda, MZET, and all the others here
who have helped us get a grip. I know I'll be thinking of
you, too, Confused! ;) Keep cool.
From: Luise
I love everything you guys are saying and I agree
totally with Kelle that these words are divine. I hate to
keep adding new twists and turns to complicate things BUT
I have always known I was loveable. My parents loved me
totally unconditionally and still do. It's my husband who
has always put the conditions on love and it has been so
difficult for me to live with. I have loved him
unconditionally our entire marriage but with each new
condition or criticism I slip farther from that. He is a
Christian man, is in a one on one bible study, but he
cannot seem to love unconditionally, even with our kids.
He also can't talk about or share his feelings on any
level except critically or in a condescending manner.
From: Bernd
Luise, I hear your frustration. Here’s my
thoughts, and maybe somewhere in them, something will
click (I’ve been lucky before!:)
Your words “BUT I have always known I was
loveable” rings a bell with me. I haven’t ever
known I was loveable, but there’s other things I
“knew” about myself that I used to help me make
many choices.
What I’ve discovered - after having so many of
those choices continue to keep me in frustration - is
that when things don’t work out in healthy ways in
my life, my brain isn’t really in harmony with the
real truths my soul and my heart know. I’ve become
smarter over my years of recovery, but not in the ways I
became “smarter” before. Before, I figured I
knew a fair amount. Now, I realize, I know nothing.
Nothing, absolutely nothing.
All I have is my best guesses. When those guesses are
close to the truth, things work out, and work out well.
When things aren’t working out well, it’s a
valuable clue to me that I’m missing something
important. When my soul, heart, and mind aren’t in
harmony, it’s like trying to run with one foot going
to the left, and the other to the right. It just
don’t work.
I believe it’s no accident you’re in the
type of relationship you are. In fact, it’s my guess
that one of the greatest treasures a
“difficult” relationship can bring us is to
bring to our awareness that cherished beliefs we have are
wearing a very good “truth” disguises. I call
such beliefs “twisted truths”. They look and
seem very true to our minds, but they are instead very
convincing look-alikes, often keeping us blind or unaware
of old buried pain, confusion, or disbelief.
A “twisted truth” is a lot like aiming a
rocket toward the moon, and targeting it almost exactly
in the right direction. It only has to be a fraction of a
degree off the “true” mark, in order to
eventually miss the moon by a mile.
In relationships, we discover this when we wonder why
“truths” we know inside seem to just get us
more problems. For example, it’s very much a truth
of love that we each are special, and magical, and
beautiful. How many woman have been in a situation where
some guy said exactly those sort of words to her, yet it
didn’t “feel” right. Where was the twist?
The wolf hidden in the sheep’s clothing was the word
“control”. The words were being said not so
much out of love, or caring, but out of a desire to get
something unspoken (for eg., sex). A smooth guy saying
“you’re beautiful and special” looks,
sounds, and feels so close to the truth that it’s
damn hard to tell whether it’s twisted by using our
mind alone. Let the soul have it’s say, and the
alarm bells go clanging like crazy. Let the mind lead
alone, and you have a pretty good idea of the swamp many
have fallen into. Luise, I suspect that your
parents’ love has not and is not as unconditional as
you want inside to believe and see it as. I also suspect
that they have had a lot of practice at shutting off
their own inner turmoil, when it conflicts with how they
want to project their images as “loving
beings”. If you search for a truer understanding of
the successes and failings of their love, it can help you
see them more honestly, and more as imperfect human
beings like you and your husband - each with your own set
of imperfections and strengths. Your parents’ way of
coping with their problems has some very important clues
as to how and why you deal with struggles in your
relationship.
You have a view of your parents that your husband
likely feels impossible to live up to, and even if you
are sending any overt signals, the hidden signals he gets
because of the differences between his love, and how you
see theirs, will be all too plain to him, and be a
consistent lightening rod for his own anger, frustration
and resentment. And if you are subconsciously looking for
the same kind of unconditional love from him that you
believe you’re getting from your parents, you will
continue to be frustrated and disappointed. He can give
you only what he’s capable of.
One of the really neat things about love is that, when
we truly are okay with accepting what our partner is
capable of giving us (and willing to give us of their own
free choice), they become capable of much, much more. The
more we’re able to let go of such expectations, the
more we eventually end up getting what brings us the most
joy.
That’s my best guesses, anyway. Thanks for your
candour. It gave me lots of food for thought.
|
