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So it goes - Steve

As I read the postings on this site I am thankful to learn of all the problems that other people have in their lives. By that I mean I thought I was the only one who dealt with complex issues of life, marriage and work.

My reason for writing is to get other perspectives on my current situation. I am 41, professional and successful at my calling. I have been married for 17 years and can honestly say I love my wife and I know she loves me. We are very considerate of each others feelings and care deeply about each other.

We met 19 years ago at her brothers dorm room in college. She came to visit him during summer school. We had a fun time but did not start to date until the nest summer and were married a year after that. Our marriage has blessed us with a son who is a good person and starting to think about leaving our nest and being on his own. Actually it will be another two years for that to happen.

for me the issue is that over time people change and get interested in different things. For my wife this attitude came after the death of two close relatives. That live is too short, and she wants to live it without pain or guilt. Our marriage has run hot and cold. I have had one job for the last fifteen years and she has had 13. She likes to change things. She has a very good job now. Works in a Dr. office for two years. The people she works with like her and think she does a great job. Yet twice in the last six months she has walked out on the job over minor disagreements with the office manager. Each time she packed up her stuff and carried it out the door. Both times she and the office manager patched it up, chalk it up to the stress of the work and returned to peace at the office.

She has blamed me in the past for moving her away from her family, mother, father and brothers. She has been through depression and is on medication for it, zoloft.

She has pressed so hard on the family issue that this year I will leave my employer and move the family back to our hometown. Since last fall, she has decided to sleep in the spare bedroom because she says she sleeps better alone. She likes more room. I accepted this as occasionally we still slept together. About four months ago she refused to be intimate at all. We have not had sex and at the moment all she will allow me to do is hug her and kiss her hello and goodbye. I am not allowed to kiss her with my tongue. She says she is just not interested in sex and will not do it. She says she understands how difficult this is for me yet she will not budge.

My question is this, am I crazy to stay with this person who treats me this way. I know she loves me, is this her way of trying to break us up with out her having to leave. This is very important to her as her family is Catholic and her parents and grandparents were married for a very long time.

I know she wants change in her life, does this include changing her partner. Poor choice of words, I do not feel like a partner anymore, just some one who shares the house and pays the bills. I'm looking for a woman's point of view. I know all about communicating, when we talk and I try to share my feelings regarding our life and how much she means to me it makes her uncomfortable. Is she trying to tell me something. What is it. We have been to counsellors and after two or three times she does not want to continue. She believes they oversimplify the situation. The last one told her to try to understand what a man thinks about sex, to a man it is a very important part of love. She said she understood yet if her solution was for us to have sex that was not a solution, "It's not going to happen" was her response to the counsellor.

I'm not sure what the next step will bring. If we move and get back home and things do not work out, I will not only have lost my wife, my family but my career will have to start all over again. I know this will not be easy I just want to understand the motivation. Are these feelings she is having common to others. How have others dealt with them. What do the subtleties of behaviour mean?

From: Kandy

Hi Steve, first I'll just introduce myself, I am Kandy and I am 28 years old, I am replying to you from London. I have read your letter about your lately troubled relationship between you and your wife. Surely if you and your wife have been married for 19 years, you must really love each other. I believe that marriages which end up in separation after such a long time of being together do so because one or both of the partners do not try hard enough to patch up what is going wrong. Your wife seems like she is having a very hard time in coming to terms with the death of her relatives, the meaning of life and too scared about death. Probably, her problems are so well hidden deep inside that she is not aware of them herself. You have not mentioned whether you do keep reminding her how important she is to you and how much you still love her.

Have you tried being blunt and asking her directly if she does feel that your marriage has come to an end? As you said, you are about to make some big changes in your life (such as living your career behind to take the family back home) and I do have a lot of respect for the decision you have made, it does show how much your wife and son mean to you. And you are very much right by saying that if she does feel she wants to put an end to it, than not only you have lost your loved one but also your career. If I were you I would try to find out exactly how your wife feels before I made such a big move. Try to talk to her again, if you have the chance of staying alone with her for the whole weekend, do so and tell her exactly how much you care for her, let her know how worried you are about her, do not mention the sex, just try to find out what her problems are and show her that you are there for her come rain or shine. If you are strong and show her your love and support all the time, the day will come that she will open up and let her fears out. I really do hope that you will get that sparkle back in your relationship.

From: Steve

Thanks for the comments. I have always found it to be beneficial for me to talk to others about my problems. I guess I'm curious in that how does a person loose interest is sex. I know for me, I can't imagine not getting turned on at some time during the week. Do others loose their sex drive. What are the factors that would lead to that loss of sexual feelings. How common is it for others spouses to lose interest in the sexual side of their relationships.

From: Susan

Steve, sorry you are going through all this. A couple of questions : 1) Zoloft - how long and how much. I also take it and was on Prozac. MANY anti-depressants cause a significant change in libido. Please check with her doctor about this, her medication can be changed or modified. 2) was her disinterest sudden, or in any way linked to a major "upheaval" in her life - i.e loss of a parent, child moving away, major surgery, etc. Also, age may make a difference - did you say her age? Can you pin her change to any of this ??

From: Steve

Age is 41. As for a loss. Two important people passed away in the last seven years. Her grandmother and her uncle. Her mother was one of a family of three children. Two girls and a boy. When the grandmother died the bulk of the estate went to Don, my wife's uncle. Don is ten years older than my wife. He received the most as he had provided the care to her for the last eight years of her life. He has never been married and did not date.

This dividing of her estate left hard feelings between the children. The two sisters fought and my wife's cousin actually accused the uncle of child abuse. The uncle was physically attacked and his reputation was ruined. No charges were ever filed as no proof existed. The nest few years were followed by depression as the uncle never recovered from the emotional pain of being accused. He drank himself to death three years ago at the age of 48. My wife was close to her uncle and slipped into a depression. After about six months she started to take medication. I wondered if the medication can be causing the change, but the lack of interest is sex happened after being on the medication for a year.

I just can't get the feelings to go away, that her lack of interest in sex is a lack of interest in me. I know it is selfish to think this and most of the time it does not bother me. Yet every two or three weeks I get to feeling this way. I usually get my hopes up especially after a very good week. When things seem to be clicking for us.

I search for understanding the complexities of relationships. I have the attitude that when I married my wife that I found the most wonderful person in the world. I can not think of being without her. I can not imagine not loving her. That is the most frustrating part. Even when life's difficult situations have developed I knew she was there for me and vice-versa. I could go on for a lot longer but it is late and I'm going to go to bed. I'll check back with this site in a little while. Thanks.

From: Susan

While I understand I am over-simplifying this ..... 1) 41 is not actually too young to begin the early stages of menopause, especially if she has had problems in that area. 2) The medication could be a factor - not necessarily the cause - but a contributing factor. It has it's way of slowly working around to that - I speak from experience - also, some folks become MORE depressed on Zoloft !!! I think I would at least discuss this with her doctor. 3) Sounds like some serious family problems there. Is there a possibility there was abuse concerning the Uncle ? Would she have been involved or suspected it in any way?

Is your wife otherwise affectionate with you, still the warm caring person as before. If physical intimacy is all that is lacking, there could be a medical or emotional problem causing pain (or shame or embarrassment) that she is unwilling to face or discuss. Please encourage her to see her doctor and discuss this. If purely it's purely emotional, have you considered therapy. There are some who specialize in "marital therapy" which encompasses traditional therapy and sexual dysfunctions.

Otherwise, you need to take care of yourself, and therapy and support groups would certainly be something for you to think about. You can take care of yourself without taking care of her. She will need to discover for herself what she needs or wants or will respond to. Just love her and yourself, through it all - that is the most important part !!!! {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

From: Bernd

Hi Steve, I know it’s frustrating and confusing to have such big changes happen in your marriage after so many years together. I’ll give you some of my guesses.

I think Susan and Kandy have some really valid insights. Zoloft definitely has side-effects in many people that reduce (sometimes significantly) sexual desire and feelings. Your wife may have very well “forced” herself to try and continue a somewhat normal sex life after such side effects started taking hold, but finally gave up. To me, this would make sense of why the dramatic changes happened close to a year after she started on the meds.

Regarding your uncle, the truth may never be known. I wouldn’t discount the possibility that he WAS involved in some sexual abuse. You don’t have to condemn him in accepting such a possibility, but it may be erroneous to conclude that he drank himself to death because of false accusations. He may have drank to try to escape the pain of his awareness of what he had done, after the accusations came out. Sexual abuse - because it pits an adult’s testimony against a child’s (or a former child) is extremely difficult to prove in a court of law in many cases. He may not have been an abuser, but it’s also possible he may have.

The relevance of this is that - if he did abuse your wife - she is not only dealing with depression, but she is also dealing with resurfaced pain and memories of such abuse. This is hell for her. If she was in a horrible accident where her body was covered with burns, she wouldn’t want sex, because it would be too painful, and I think you’d find it easier to accept, because the reasons would be understandable. Now picture her soul carrying those same burns. She is in extreme pain inside, but because you can’t see it, it’s hard to understand and accept. Her pain would also be wrapped up in a lot of guilt and shame - part of the hell abuse victims find themselves in is believing they could have stopped it, that they were responsible (or partly responsible) for it happening. They see a monster inside of themselves, and they are terrified that if they really start looking at all that inner pain, their partner will see that monster too, and leave them. As much as you feel you are going thru hell right now, my guess is that your wife is dealing with pain that is even greater - and is terrified of acknowledging it. There is a saying that God works in mysterious ways. I suspect that you have asked God to help you understand what is happening. I think He’s answered you. The pain you are feeling perhaps gives you the best awareness you’re able to get into how much she is hurting inside. Whenever you hurt, remind yourself that she is trying to stave off feeling even greater pain and ongoing panic from her past. It will help you get perspective.

The deaths in the family would add even more weight to her shoulders. The one thing about feelings is that our bodies don’t let us be selective. We can’t choose what feelings we feel. It’s more like all or nothing. If your wife is trying to keep an overwhelming flood of pain from the past from drowning her, it would be impossible for her to fully feel the grief she needed to from the deaths. That has added a lot to the weight she’s carrying inside. Picture her carrying a huge sack of rocks, her back bent over by the sheer weight, a look of tiredness in her eyes and growing hopelessness. Does this type of situation seem like one where sex would be near the top of her “want” list? Not likely. What she needs most is simple acceptance, and some signs of hope that there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

Having said all that, it is perfectly okay if you decide that the best thing for you is to get away from this relationship for awhile, or forever. If you decide to stay, it will be very frustrating and confusing at times, but if you make a commitment to YOURSELF to find out what this relationship is trying to really give you, and teach you, I promise you the rewards and answers will astound and awe you for the rest of your life. On the surface, it seems like the most selfish thing to do is leave, but from my experience, the most selfish thing for you may actually be to stay.

I concur with Susan’s suggestion about therapy for yourself. If you stay, I suspect you’ll need every tool you can get a hold of, and every source of outside insight and support you feel comfortable with.

Your need for sex might be masking other needs, such as closeness, hugs, validation, and safe places to express your feelings. You can get all of those needs healthily met to some degree outside the marriage (friendships and support groups), which will take some of the pressure off. I’d also suggest making a commitment to touching and caressing your wife emotionally as well as physically, while reassuring her that it won’t lead to sex - and keeping that promise. (Emotional caressing is saying things as simple as “I love your smile/eyes/face/etc.” out of the blue, and for no reason other than the nice feelings you get from saying them). If she does initiate sex, remind her that you give her the complete freedom to stop at any time, for any reason, and that you’ll stay with her and hold her when/if that ever happens.

I’d also highly recommend learning as much as you can about depression and sexual abuse. There are some excellent books on both subjects, including “Courage to Heal” and “Allies in Healing”. You haven’t been thru your wife’s experiences yourself, so the more insight you get into other people’s similar experiences, the more empathy you’ll be able to develop with the struggles she’s dealing with. It will help you and her.

Finally, think of the marriage vows in a bit of a different way. If you got married in a church, there were likely prayers that asked God to help you both grow in love together, and find happiness. There is crap from both your childhoods, and struggles from the present, that are acting like mud on the windows to your souls. Some of it is caked on there pretty hard. God doesn’t lead us to happiness by erasing our memories of bad stuff. He leads us to happiness by allowing our souls to bring that crap to our attention (which we usually resist mightily), so that we can help ourselves and others release it and heal it, letting more and more sunshine in. Love always works in multiples. That’s part of the power of marriage.

Everything that Lynda does, or doesn’t do, is exactly what I need to help me in my healing. When I remind myself of that, powerful and wonderful things happen. I don’t have to understand right away. The understanding comes to me when it’s best for me. I don’t know where your path leads, or what the best path is for you. I just hope that some of the things I’ve mentioned help you find out more about what’s truly best for you, and help give you some reassurance that going on faith is not crazy; in fact, genuine, constantly tested and doubted faith is the sanest thing I know. Hope this helps a bit.

From: George

I might have a different theory on loss of sex drive. Physically how do you look? Are you overweight? Are you in just as good of shape as you were the night of your honeymoon? I'm being blunt, because women DO care what their mates look like. A nice size inner tube around your waste could be a factor in the loss of desire.

Also, my suggestion is this. Don't be so "sincere" with your wife. STOP telling her that she is everything to you. STOP telling her that you love her ALL the time, only once in a while to keep her reassured. In other words, it is time to play "hard to get". Not in the traditional sort of way, but in a married sort of way. My guess is that your wife has simply gotten bored with the marriage. You are always there for her, always telling her that you love and need her, always standing by her side, always being the one who shows the interest in the relationship. Let me tell you, all the kisses and hugs and I love you's ain't gonna make her get interested again. She already knows you love her, she already knows all the things you say and do. Take on a new image. Start working out. Do things on your own. Basically, rekindle her desire for something she's not sure she can have. Women LOVE chasing after something that looks forbidden or mysterious. I'm not saying change your whole personality or attitude, just make things fun again. Go out with your friends more often. Don't call her from work or whatever. Let her have time alone by herself. Don't alienate yourself, just be less intrusive and less "there" all the time. After time, you will rekindle her interest and curiosity in the man that she married. Don't think that just because you have been there all the time, and that "you know she loves you", and that she desired you years ago means that she does now. You have to keep marriage exciting and mysterious regardless how long you've been together. Do things you've never done before. Exciting things. Spontaneous. And if she doesn't want to go or wants to stay home instead, fine, go with your buddies and leave her home. All the best.

From: Steve

Thanks for the advice. I'm not overweight. At 5'10.5" I weigh 168lbs. I do work out at aerobic and lifting exercises. Not so I get huge just to keep toned and tight. You could be right, I'm always there for her and I have let my personal life suffer in that the only acquaintances I have are with people at work. I do not go out with the boys. Perhaps I can try to be less there for her

From: kim

How wonderful for your wife that she has a compassionate, caring partner as you to go through life with. I'm pretty certain that if she could change the way she feels right now she would. Sometimes we just need time to process the events and emotions tied to them before we can "get better" or "back to normal". I also speak from experience.

Susan was right when she said to take care of yourself. The more you do that, the easier it will be on her to handle her own problems without having to "worry" about you. Not that she doesn't care, but I suspect that this is all taking alot of energy on her part to go through. That's one of the most crippling parts of depression. Write more often and let us know what you need. If it's just a cyber-smile and hug, I can give you that :-)! Take care.

From: Steve

Thanks for all the comments and advice. It is reassuring to learn about all of you who have had similar experiences. That is perhaps the most reassuring thing about this site, that I am not alone. When I get depressed I can always read about other peoples problems and mine don't seem too bad.

I will post here in the future, I have found that by putting thoughts into words I feel better about my situation.

My most recent discovery is that my wife has started to do drugs again. She purchased pot from her brother and has been smoking it daily for a month or so. I discovered this by accident when I got up Sun. morning early. She had fallen asleep in the family room and not put her pipe and stash away. I thought she was having trouble with medication, trouble sleeping due to zoloft. Now I learn she just wants to stay up late and get high after we have gone to bed. We due have a 15 yr. old, how can this be good for him. If I can find out I'm sure he can too.

It's getting to the point where I am so confused about her behaviour. With the lack of intimacy, and the fact she is concealing drug use I can not stop wondering what else I don't know. Can it be that she is just passing through a phase? Or what can be next.

I have for the last 17 yrs. never been with another woman and do not want to start now. Yet attempts to relate to my wife are getting more difficult. All I want is to feel her love. I do not have that feeling. When she tries to explain she says life is too short to worry what will happen. She wants to be happy and doing what she is doing makes her happy. Depression medication, Drug abuse, Lack of intimate feelings, Sleeping in spare bedroom, Staying up late. Where do I fit into this picture? When will it all make sense?

From: kim

The mother in me is coming out now. I may sound judgmental, but I have a 15 year old son also. In my mind, I think the child is the first priority here. You should seek some legal advice as to what penalties there are if illegal drugs are discovered in your home. Could you also be prosecuted? What a mess that would be and how ashamed you and your wife would be to have this found out by your child.

I don't know what the best method for doing this is (I'm sure narcotics anonymous would have some good advice), but I would let my spouse know that she would NOT be living in my home as long as she was involved in an illegal activity. Where are her maternal instincts. This is when I say to hell with her pain, your pain or anyone elses. Your child deserves better than the atmosphere and consequences this can have. I may sound preachy here, but there is no excuse for her doing this. If she wants help, then find it. If she wants to drown her pain, then do so elsewhere. She is a grown up. The child is not and doesn't need that in his home. The home should be the haven from the world. If it's not, they WILL find somewhere else to go.

I'm sorry if this sounds offensive. It's just that as a single mom, I know how hard it is to raise two healthy children in a non drug-induced state, and to help them find healthy alternatives to stress, etc. What kind of example do parents set when one is an abuser and the other sits back and allows it? You sound like a wonderful man. I know that what ever you decide will be in your families best interest. Good luck!

From: Bernd

It's extremely difficult watching someone you've known and loved much of your life fall deeper and deeper into quicksand. We're very tempted to try and rescue them, yet what our efforts usually do is get US mired in our own quicksand of despair right next to them. I'm going to ask you to take a HUGE leap of faith and ask you to try and embrace "what is happening with my wife now is EXACTLY what I need most". How can this be so?

If your wife has been sexually abused, and you're only beginning to get a glimpse of that truth, then throughout your marriage you have NOT KNOWN a very integral part of the woman you love. And based on Lynda's and my experience in rebuilding our relationship, not only did I "not know" important parts of the real Lynda, but I was also dreadfully out of touch with important parts of MYSELF. If we only want roses that have no thorns, we'll never truly have roses.

Your wife is unable to keep shutting off those parts of herself that she is ashamed of, and looks at as "monsters" inside of her. She is in a desperate struggle to try and shut down the old pain and panic that those parts of her bring to her awareness. As long as you are trying to monitor, judge, or "help" her stop that destructive behavior, her focus will be on trying to deal with her struggles with YOU, not her struggles with herself.

This is hard stuff. But there's reasons why it's hard. Childhood pain is like a high interest loan. The longer we take in really dealing with it, the more "interest" accumulates, and the more it sucks out of us when we do begin taking care of it. Think of discovering that you suddenly owed $500,000. Would a sense of hopelessness begin to overwhelm you? That s the kind of hopelessness your wife likely feels inside. And my guess is she is trying to keep that hopelessness from turning into unstoppable despair.

It is your struggle with your own despair over her that gives you the best possible chance of giving yourself a tremendous gift, and really helping her find her way out of her own despair. It's called the power of example. If you can embrace that what is happening is exactly what you need right now, your focus can turn to finding out why. And it will also help you LET your wife find her own way thru her stumbling, because of your realization that her stumbling will help you learn some very powerful lessons about genuine love - lessons that will help you get the happiness you truly deserve no matter what happens to this relationship.

As a start, if you can find a support group for partners of drug addicts online or in real life, it will give you a lot of help in dealing with the newest twist. Narcotics Anonymous is a great place to find such help. Even if your wife isn't "addicted", your life is being affected by her drug use. That's really what such support groups help its members deal with.

Try to look for answers and help in ways - and from sources - that don't require your wife to change ANYTHING. And as painful as it might be, if you can find the courage to begin looking at how dependent you are on your wife for your happiness and peace of mind, it will lead you in healthy directions that will help heal your relationship with her, and with yourself.

I'm going to give you some perspective here. I wouldn't trade my relationship with Lynda for anything in the world now. We have been thru fire and swamps and quicksand, and almost lost each other many many times. As tough as I thought her affair was on me, it was just a warm-up for the real work that lay ahead of us. She had horrendous wounds inside of her from her past childhood sexual abuse (in combination with other wounds), and without the lessons I learned in coping with the affair, I would have never been able to be an ally in her later healing. And those wounds were a PART of her, something that ate at her like a cancer for much of her life. Along the way I've discovered some pretty painful wounds of my own from my past. To have Lynda as an ally in MY healing is a joy that goes beyond words. What goes around comes around. And with love, it comes back around many many times over.

That's it. Just a reminder - these are simply my best guesses, Do the searching you need to find out what feels true for you.

From: mzet

My situation is totally different from yours but I would like to share what I have found because it echoes what Bernd is saying. The ONLY instrument that gets to the core of the loved one we want to change, and the only efficient and effective one, is an attitude of profound benevolence that never dies, despite all the ingratitudes we may be subjected to. This attitude is perfect love.

So what has happened to you (and to those of us who have had to deal with affairs or other painful situations) is, in essence, that life has given you an opportunity to learn how to really love. Because what we gave before was not love, not perfect love, in that our love always had expected something in return. Perfect love is unconditional. In fact, we shouldn't love because we "feel" good in the company of the one we love, but because the other person IS or, if you are religious, because their God is our God.

This kind of perfect love is not easy. It is very difficult and sometimes painful. It takes time to get there and the results of change in the other are not guaranteed because that change is, really, beyond our control. But this love does open the POSSIBILITY of change in the loved one. And, more importantly, this love brings, between the ups and downs we all have, a sense of steady peace, joy and strength that is unlike anything I have experienced before.

Finally, one last bit of insight I just stole reading Sta. Teresa of Avila: If we really want to open the possibility of change in the other, we have to practice to perfection the virtue(s) contrary to the fault(s) of the loved one, because it is our example what will teach, not our words, nor our warnings, nor our threats. And the perfect virtue that the other sees in us is usually very contagious. Guesses, just guesses, like Bernd says. Take care.

From: kim

Hi Steve, you sound like a wonderful man. I can tell you that from my perspective, a "healthy" woman is most attracted to a man with a strong sense of himself and his own life. It is so flattering when he wants to include you in his affairs and of course when he notices your womanliness. But, if a man becomes too attentive, it can be smothering. It makes you wonder if he doesn't have other things in his life that bring him fulfillment. No one wants to be someones "everything" in the sense that every move you make affects them tremendously. I don't know if I'm expressing this correctly. I'm just trying to say that I like it when I can be with a man and let my guard down and just be me. I don't have to worry if I say or do the right thing too much. Then, I can just be a woman. And if he enjoys my "female" side, then great. I also have found that the more "masculine" a man is, the more "feminine" I can be. I'm not trying to be stereotypical here. Does that make sense to you? I am definetly not a shrinking violet. I have my own oppinions in a big way. I'm a person just as a man is, but it's nice to be with a person who enjoys me as a woman, AND who is healthy in his own right as a man.

I don't know if I conveyed the message that I am trying to, but I think that if you take care of you, she will be more intrigued by the real YOU. Not by what you DO for her. Maybe she'll be more motivated to give to YOU for a change. Good luck, and I'll be looking for more posts from you.

From: Steve

Last evening my wife and I had a talk and I said to her that she needed to stop the drug use. She is not a rebellious teen testing the limits. She needs to accept the facts of her life and search for help. It was a good talk in that both of us were able to talk openly. Her response to the topic was that at this point in her life she felt she did not want to be told what to do or not do.

She came home from work early today and cleaned out her closet and dresser. I have not heard from her since I left for work this morning. Our son was out for the day with friends and he has not heard from her as well. I can only assume that she is ok. It is very lonely and quiet in the house tonight. Is this the end.

From: Bernd

This is a change, but where that change leads to, only the future will tell. Try to get some support thru an online support group for partners of drug users, or even better, a live support group. Take each day at a time, and try to remind yourself that true change is often a long and confusing process - for both of you. Try not to make any major decisions until you've built up a support network that can help you validate your feelings, and help you take some of the pressure off the confusion, despair, and frustration. Give yourself time and patience.


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