 |
 Help!!! - mzet
Here's my sob story nowadays. I thought my wife had
been "affair sober" for several weeks now, but
I just found out she started going out with another
guy!!!!! She says she dumped the first guy, the one she
was so madly in love with and now wanted to explore
someone else. Supposedly it has only been "somewhat
sexual" whateverthehell that means. The reality is
that I set myself up for this one when I told her she was
free to do whatever she wanted. I thought she would
continue her first affair and when she did not, a glimmer
of hope appeared, but it totally blew me away when I
discovered this new affair. I think I was sincere when I
told her she was free, but the pain came back when she
used it. It was not as hard, partly because I am
stronger, partly because she's not "in love"
with this second guy, she just wanted to have
"fun" with him. But it is painful nevertheless.
Why can't she stop looking at other people for happiness
and start looking at HERSELF? And I feel so impotent
because I shouldn't even tell her that!!! And when I do,
we all know I don't get anywhere.
Anyway, everything blew up over the weekend. I am
ready to call it quits, get a divorce, etc., and she
knows it. She counter-offered a separation first to see
how things are away from me. She feels once she is by
herself she will be able to evaluate things better, etc.
I have tremendous doubts about this. What is she going to
do without me that she hasn't been able to do so far? But
I gave in again and told her OK. we'll separate for three
months max. We'll go to therapy together to structure
that separation with tight timelines and rules because I
cannot handle another open ended deal like the one we had
before. She also suggested, and I agreed, to go to
Retrovaille (SP?) (that Marriage Encounter for couples
about to get divorced.) in about seven weeks. She had
always resisted that idea, but now she wants it. I guess
that's good, regardless of her reasons for wanting it.
The bottom line is that she tells me that she wants
our relationship to work out because of the kids, but
that she has more fun with other guys, so if it were not
for the kids she would have left long ago.
I really see no hope left. I have to get out of this
for my own sanity and I am prepared mentally to get out.
I have told her that it doesn't matter if she doesn't
think she CAN love me or have fun with me. What matters
is that she has to decide if she WANTS to fix the
relationship, if she WANTS to love me, if she Wants to
have fun, not for the kids but for herself. Everything
else will follow according to the effort we both put in.
Then and only then will the possibility of love emerge.
But she's got to be open. And she is not there yet; I
don't think she'll ever get there. She admits she doesn't
want to fix it for herself. And I've run out of time.
This has been going on for over one year since she first
fell in love with someone else, and perhaps longer since
she has been looking. I can't take it any longer.
I feel as if there was movement this weekend, but I'm
not sure. Lynda and Bernd, what do you think? Is that
movement according to your experience? Lynda, I know you
have said that when Bernd moved out you finally were able
to be more introspective. Is that what my wife wants? Or
will she use the time to have more fun? Or does it
matter? Should I really give this a try? I'm also not
sure if I should move out or if she should move out.
(We've got four kids ages three to nine). What do you
think? What does everybody else think?
 From: Bernd
I know your insides must feel at times as if they are
like a volcano. Lynda and I were talking about our own
past experiences tonight, remembering the pain she felt
when I told her about my past affairs, and the pain I
felt each time I discovered hers was continuing. Both of
us thought that we'd never make it thru, and both of us
thought many times there really wasn't any use continuing
the marriage.
Mzet, how much outside support do you have right now?
The less of a support network you have - such as friends
you can talk to openly, therapist, support group, etc. -
the more difficult time you'll have trying to deal with
overwhelming pain that comes up during times like this,
and the more difficult it will be to hear your inner
voice whispers while roaring trains are running thru your
head and heart. As bad as the turmoil might be right now,
there may be very sound reasons why things are happening
the way they are. I'll explore a few guesses with you.
First, I know hindsight is 20/20, and that it's
"easy for me to say this" with Lynda's and mine
biggest struggles behind us, but I'll say it anyway. The
longer time I spend in recovery, the more it's making
perfect sense to me that everything that Lynda did was
EXACTLY what I needed most, as much as I hated it at the
time. Her choices pushed the buttons attached to the
inner wounds I need to heal most, and reminded me in a
way nothing else could of the urgency of dealing with
those wounds. That's not the way I saw things at the time
- far from it - but that's my best guess at what
happened, and why.
Here's some guesses:
- you've been practicing "giving her
freedom", and hoped that it would help her find her
way back to you. Her new affair has brought you to a real
crisis of faith; it's brought home (painfully) that you
are only part of the way there. Your freedom was still
conditional on the results being acceptable to you. True
freedom, and love can;t be conditional, any more than
someone can be half pregnant. You have a huge leap of
faith in front of you, but it seems like a terrifying
chasm. Do you let go completely of needing her to stop
being unfaithful, and give her and yourself a whole new
level of freedom, or do you give up believing that such
freedom is the way you need to go? It's agonizing being
at the edge of a cliff like that, wondering if God is
going to really help carry you across, or whether it's a
trick and illusion that will just end up in you falling
damn hard. I remember agonizing with terror when I was
faced with similar leaps. Yet, there was something inside
me that kept reminding me it was time, that I had been
brought to such a crisis point for a reason, that I was
ready. And eventually, I took the leap of faith I needed
to, doubting all the way, but knowing that if I wanted
the love and happiness I was so hungry for, I HAD to
follow the guidance inside, even when it seemed totally
insane to do so. After all, I had prayed so many times
for God to lead me where I needed to go. And the leaps
now make a lot more sense. They have a real world
comparison. If you want to get to Canada from Europe,
eventually at some point to have to fly. Walking doesn't
get you there.
- your wife: addiction is more powerful than we are.
Her new affair means she's switched "drugs",
but it's still a disease process. How capable is an
alcoholic of genuine love? Not very - the alcohol blocks
the windows around the soul. An addiction is a jail, and
it's impossible for any prisoner to hug another person
without the jail door bars getting in the way. Her
"drugs" also make it impossible for her to be
truly aware of how the addiction is in control of her
life; it deludes her into thinking SHE'S in control. As a
comparison, it's impossible for someone with
schizophrenia to be aware that the hallucinations they
see aren't real; it's the nature of the disease.
No one knows for sure yet what brings some addicts
into recovery, while other never recover. However, there
are some things that definitely help give someone more of
a chance of finding their way to recovery. The most
powerful is example; every bit of healing you do in your
recovery from codependency DOES have a positive effect,
even tho it may no show up in ways you expect, or in the
timetable you hope. Second, allowing your wife to face
the natural consequences of her choices helps
tremendously. For example, when she has her down times,
and is feeling the pain of her choices, allowing her to
feel that pain without trying to soothe it is letting her
face natural consequences. Not defending her to anyone is
another way. Taking care of your own feelings and
well-being by creating some distance between you and her
(when inner guided) is another. Treating her addiction as
a disease process also helps a lot, because the more you
are able to, the better mirror you become. Until she
looks at her addiction as a disease, she can't begin
searching for appropriate treatment. One more factor that
helps bring a person into recovery is - interfering less
with their spiral downward toward hitting bottom. Hitting
bottom is excruciating painful, but essential. It's only
when an addict get such a wake-up call that the pain is
able to awaken their awareness that their addiction is
carrying them to hell in a handbucket. This is about the
only point where an addict truly realizes that the
addiction has been the devil in an angel's disguise. Most
addicts, when they reach such a point, become aware for
the first time that the devil has an open door to hell
and death waiting for them around the corner.
Your wife is NOT happy. The new affair is like going
from valium to heroin. The new drug masks her unhappiness
even better, but it too will stop working as well. The
best comparison I know to this process is Alzheimer's,
where the mind slips further and further away. The
difference is that Alzheimer's still has no known cure,
or treatment that will effectively reverse the process.
The disease of addiction has no cure, but the spiral
downward is almost fully reversible with appropriate
treatment.
- why you are in this: I'm going to give you something
to chew on. What if, before we are born, we are given the
choice of what we want to learn in this life, to enlarge
us spiritually? (If you want to delve more into some
thoughts on this, read the book "Embraced by the
Light"). What if the amount of spiritual enlargement
(and joy) we got in this lifetime was in direct
proportion to the amount of struggle and suffering we
were willing to endure? What if we were given free
choice, so that the amount of struggle was truly within
our ability to handle it? If you can wade into this pool
a bit to test the waters, here are some thoughts that
might come to you. You "volunteered" to be this
woman's partner, because you knew she would need the help
she needs to find her way back to heaven from the inner
hell she was going to be thrust into because of her
childhood experiences. You "knew" ahead of time
that the children you would both have were on their own
journeys, and that your own recovery - and your wife's -
were going to be the "training" grounds for
THEIR journeys in this life, the one's THEY had
volunteered for. And that they needed to experience the
miracle of such a transformation that may be awaiting
both of you, in order to carry out THEIR life's work?
It may sound totally crazy, and it did to us at first
when we started exploring such concepts in our own
marriage. But the evidence in our lives is getting rather
compelling. Our kids aren't out of the woods yet, but
already they've developed a kind of inner strength and
empathy and calm and trust in themselves that kids from
"normal" families around them struggle with.
For example, Jennifer has founded a charitable
organization that has so far sent over 100
underprivileged kids to summer camp, including a group of
inner city ghetto kids from Boston. It was her idea, and
her work, started when she was 14 (she's 18 now).
The "I volunteered for this" is something
Lynda and I remind ourselves of whenever we hit really
tough potholes. We chose our life's work, willingly, and
without reservation. God gives us the complete loving
freedom to "opt out" at any time. We still
aren't sure what we "decided we wanted to
accomplish", but we're also more aware that such
knowledge isn't necessary. Our soul knows, and each
understanding will be given to us exactly when we need
it.
Think a few moments about the original affair. What
did it bring you? It turned you back towards a search to
reconnect with the spiritual part of you. It started you
on a journey that you realized you'd been missing out on
most of your life. It started a process of healing and
recovery that has already produced some profound, loving
changes inside of you that are permanently transforming
the very essence of your life. It opened a door inside
that nothing else had been able to. Could there be a
chance that, in your prayers to God, you gave him the
silent message that you "wished he'd hurry up and
help you find the happiness, healing, and love you're
looking for so you could get past all this pain and
struggle"? Maybe those prayers ARE being answered,
but to soar over the swamp, means taking big leaps across
it? Leaps of faith. Like the one that's before you right
now.
Maybe it's not the "freedom" you gave your
wife that's tripping everything up. That freedom has
always been hers an an inherent right, and will always be
hers. Your efforts were to acknowledge that truth, to
live it, to try and support it in actions as well as
words. Picture yourself and her handcuffed together. When
you finally unlock the handcuffs, and throw them away, a
strange thing happens, You notice that it isn't her you
freed, as much as yourself.
Anyways, that's all for now. I don't know how much -
if any - help any of this has been, but I've got a
feeling you've been preparing yourself for this time in
your life for many months now, without being aware of it.
Try, try to reach out as much as you can to people around
you - live people - and spend as much time as you can
talking to God, and listening. Those weights you feel on
your back right now might just be the start of wings.:)
From: mzet
We all want my wife to change along with us. I know
she will change. I know that, though it may sound strange
to say, the divorce is not final, but it will give both
of us the ability to be totally free to grow in the ways
we want.
She already told me that she has stopped the second
relationship. That she wants to see the marriage
together, but not for herself, and until she makes that
change, there is little hope. I know that if she jumps
from relationship to relationship, she will be very empty
and exhausted. And she is starting to see that also, it's
just that the allure of the romantic high is very strong.
I keep telling her I love her, that I want to be her
friend, and that now more than ever I can truly say that
it is unconditional. I have tried to explain to her the
little I know about recovery, and that it starts with
WANTING change for YOURSELF. She is at least listening,
which is a big change, but somehow she is not ready. But
the seeds have been planted.
When she does make that leap of faith into recovery,
when she does make an effort to open herself to grace,
then our relationship will change once again, and the
divorce will have been only a stage in our spiritual
journey. Who knows what awaits us?
It's kind of funny how all of a sudden I am wanting to
start dating again now that I feel "free". I
have already made one approach. But suddenly reflected
about the mistake. I can't jump into another relationship
right now. It's the drug high all over again. I've got to
continue to learn from this one. Plus, I think it will be
the wrong message to my kids, my wife and the community.
But I am so tempted.....I want to be loved again by a
woman so badly that there's got to be something wrong
when that need jumps out like that, without restraint and
reflection. And it's not the sex thing. If it were just
sex it would be different, but I know that I just feel
sorry for myself and that someone else needs to reassure
me that I am OK. But that's not OK. I need to do that
myself, not another woman. I am tired of having to depend
on other women for my feeling OK. So I guess I'll cancel
the date :(
I want my wife so badly to turn to this forum, to chat
with you and Lynda. I know what you guys say would click,
but she is terrified, I think, of the tremendous amount
of pain and work that recovery will entail. It is
difficult. I went through it. I know. For the first time
this morning I asked her to read The Road Less Travelled,
which literally changed my life is so many ways. Maybe
she'll pick it up some day.
I also suggested once again that she recognize her
situation as an addiction process that is more powerful
than herself and that may have the roots in her past
history and even genetically, who knows. The point is
that it is not her fault she is what she is, but that she
is responsible for her wanting to change, even if she
thinks she can't, that's OK, she's got to want to change
first. (OK, OK, I've said it enough times....).I know it
sounds like I am lecturing her, but somehow she is not
minding it too much nowadays, I guess she knows I'm not
doing it to get anything in return since the divorce is
underway, but because I love her. And I do. Isn't that
odd?
I also told her I wanted to be her friend, her best
friend, even after the divorce. That I am not going to
screw her up, that I want to help her become who she
wants to become, even if she never comes back to me.
That's OK. I just want to love her.
She keeps telling me she wonders why I still love her,
after all she's done to me. I tell her is not me loving
her but my not-I or God within me. My I hates her.
Besides, I needed what happened. That does not justify
her actions, but it does justify my re-actions.
I keep agreeing with you that even this painful step
of divorce is what I needed to really let her go and to
really put 100% of my trust on someone else that is not
me but that is in me. I wonder at times if that is right,
but if I find peace and joy, , I know I am right. I am
truly happy. I just want to hug her and smile and play
with her and do all the things we used to do. Last time I
felt this way was two months back when I really began to
understand what you wrote about here, when I really
turned everything to God, when I recognized I was
powerless to change her and when I realized that perhaps
I was crazy or insane after all :)
Bernd, I am open. I'm telling you here a couple of
weird things. I was praying and praying for a sign (I
can't believe I am admitting this, a former atheist):
"God, do you want a divorce or a separation?"
And during the Our Father in Mass, in the part "Thy
will be done" I got a page from the attorney I had
called earlier in the day....I knew what he was going to
tell me: separation is too risky legally, you lose
leverage, etc., typical attorney jargon, but the point is
when it happened. I still couldn't believe it, so I
continued to plan for a separation for two days...Then I
asked again, please, give me a second sign, because I
wasn't too sure. I was walking on the beach at the time
and on the sand I saw written EMMA B. I thought, what is
that? Is that the second sign?...well, Emma B. can be no
other than Emma Bovary, a tragic story of the romantic
affairs of Emma and her immature view of love, it is a
fabulous novel written by Flaubert. .....Anyway, that was
too much. On top of that, my mom and dad, who have been
always in favor of my staying at home and later on a
separation, independently of me came to the same
conclusion....Serendipity....
Anyway, this has been long enough. I'll keep you guys
posted, because I have the impression that things will
develop quickly. Bernd, keep up the good work. I love
you. Say hi to Lynda.
From: drew
Oh, MZET! I was just checking back in here to see how
things were going--I was just crushed to see your post!
I'd like to send a tender hug and some of the thoughtful
words you always come up with-- but I just don't know
what to say! As painful as your experience is, I still
think you're on the right track--for YOUR sake, even if
not for the sake of your marriage. (And, as always,
Bernd's thoughts are so profound. . .)
Anyway, I'm one of those who you know is praying for
you, but more so for your wife. She has one INCREDIBLE
thing going for her in your patience (dare I say that?
you said things would be changing quickly??!!) and
persistence. I, too, wish she would spend some time
here--there are some of us here who have gone through
many of the same feelings as she has! (I remember how you
have said,"that's exactly how my wife felt before .
. .!) You are so right that it is a struggle to walk
beyond all that, and she is so lucky that you understand
that! But we would love to chat with her, learn from her
experience and share our own. . .
I feel so badly for both of you, and for your
children. But I am reassured that you are a smart cookie,
and growing smarter and stronger every day. Prayer can
still work, but as Bernd always reminds us, we have to
know how to listen to it! Beaches can be a great 'chat
room' for those divine discussions to take place! tender
hugs, you dear soul.
From: Bernd
Wow! Did I just see a caterpillar turn into a
butterfly???:) I can identify with your struggle over
"dating". Here's what I did during when I left
to be "alone" for 2 months, to try to get some
calm inside so I could get the inner direction I needed.
One of the things I always had difficulty with was my
hunger inside for closeness, for any woman that showed
she was interested in being close. It was a definite
factor in my jumping into affairs.
I kept hearing this phrase inside of me:
"intimate friendships". My guess was this meant
a friendship where a certain level of closeness didn't
automatically become a switch to sex, and a partner kind
of relationship. With women, it had pretty well been one
or the other - either we kept a good safe distance, or we
got close and went all the way (course, in each of my
affairs, I scrambled away pretty quickly to return to the
"safe distance").
During my time away, I made a conscious choice to
explore this for the first time. I spent time with a
female friend that had sensual and sexual parts to it,
but I chose not to engage in any kind of intercourse,
oral or otherwise. And surprisingly, even at times when I
WANTED to, there was something inside me that said
"no, you know what it is you NEED to search for
here", and my body would shut down. At first it
confused and frustrated the woman, and she felt it as
rejection. But I shared what I was trying to discover,
and that I valued her friendship, and that whatever she
felt I was okay with. Our friendship stayed
"safe" for both of us, and we both discovered
parts of ourselves that neither of us had tapped into
before. She still remains a good friend today, even tho
she seems to have gone back to a pattern of "all or
nothing" relationships since.
I DID eventually get into a very intimate and sexual
relationship with another friend, but for the first time
I spent a lot of time checking with my inner voice
constantly for direction. I also committed myself to
"not reporting" to Lynda, but at the same time
being open and honest whenever I talked with her. It was
damn difficult at times, but by then I had realized that
it was difficult PRECISELY because it was an important
learning process. And yes, I certainly brought my
codependency into that relationship, but the difference
was I was aware of it, and sought thru prayer (and
therapy) to let whatever healing and learning that was
trying to take place to happen. The other big difference
was that I chose not to have sex as part of the
relationship as long as it didn't feel solid, and inner
voice guided. And no, I didn't have a clear channel to my
inner voice - and still don't. But in hindsight, the
constant checking helped me to finally see a different
way of relating to a woman that didn't have my hunger in
the driver's seat.
Both those experiences helped me a lot, in finally
getting in touch with a truth inside: what filled me more
inside wasn't getting a woman to fill my emptiness
inside. What filled me most was giving out love best I
could, and letting the magic of that process fill me. In
hindsight, it got me back in touch with a truth that was
essential for me to hold onto when Lynda and I got back
together.
Those are some of my experiences, and maybe they'll
help shed a little light on what you're struggling with.
If you're curious about what effects my time away, and
those relationships had on Lynda, and what she struggled
with while I was exploring them, and how she feels about
them now, she's the best one to ask.:) We love you too.
From: wolfie
Hi there!!!! Could I just say one thing. You said that
she HAS to want to change for HERSELF. Ultimately yes -
BUT I really feel that sometimes a person seeks recovery
not for them but for someone else but EVENTUALLY they
start to want it for themselves. I Just felt it was
important I mentioned this.
From: Bernd
You sounded a lot more grounded in your reply than in
your original post. Looking at where your inner voice is
guiding you, the divorce decision seems bang on. But I
just want to throw in one little caveat here - if you
remember the process I went thru before my Good Friday
miracle, I too felt very solid about ending our
relationship. In hindsight, that "death" was
essential to make way for the miracles that followed.
(funny, how God just happened to time all this during the
Good Friday weekend, eh?) The caveat is: in following
your inner voice, try to remain aware that the reasons we
are guided in certain directions aren't usually what they
appear on the surface. The divorce may be a permanent
change in your relationship, or it may not. Be open, and
whichever way the gentle breeze inside you guides you
from moment to moment, or day to day, let it. It sounds
like you have both made some important discoveries, and
my guess is the experience of the last few days will be
serving you a lot more than you realize in the future. To
be able to walk thru the fire, and come out even more
whole on the other side, helps you find the courage you
need when facing the next wall. You've done it before,
and you now have that experience to help you in wrestling
with the next leap of faith. And each big leap of faith
tends to be even more scary and bigger than the last one,
but the rewards of making it are in direct proportion.
Also, keep in mind that there may very well be a
definite purpose behind your wife's unwillingness to
begin her own true recovery at this stage. God and love
works in multiples; when she does begin her search, your
recovery may very well be the deciding factor in her
ability to make the huge leaps of faith she needs to. You
have made it clear to God that you love her, and want to
help her in any way you can. God is helping you do just
that, by making you ready. He knows at what stage your
recovery will make you truly able to give her the love
and detachment she needs most. You are not ready yet, but
someday you will be. The closer you get to that day, the
more you'll notice your wife testing the pool, dipping
her toes into it. And maybe one day, it will click.
She'll tell you she's begun therapy, or done something
else that is a clear sign of her beginning her own
journey. And doing it for HERSELF. On that day, you
deserve to give yourself a dance on a rainbow.
In our case, even tho I "started" recovery
first, both of our examples have helped each other
equally. There have been time when I've slowed to a
crawl, and Lynda's sped by like a train, and vice versa.
It doesn't matter who goes first or last, as long as we
get to each new cloud together.
I've got to be candid with you. Something inside me
WANTS to see another couple discover the same kinds of
miracles we did. We've seen stories of others who have,
but right now your situation is the closest parallel
we've run across in someone that we've met. So we're
sorta on the bleachers, cheering inside but holding our
breath at the same time. Sometimes our own hopes for both
of you slip thru in our writings. Just so you know. But
we also realize that OUR hopes for you may or may not be
close to where God is leading you. So in a way, it's very
hard for US to "let go" of wanting things to
turn out the way WE want for you! See what you're helping
US learn??????:)
Anyway, I guess - like in our own life - from here
it's just a matter of waiting to see where you are being
led, and where we're being led. Oh, give us patience, and
give it to us now!!!!
From: mzet
Thanks for your kind words. I have a good support
network between my parents, my brother, therapist,
church, etc. But the pain is not that bad anymore, in a
very odd way. I do know that what is happening is what we
all need the most. It is strange, like you say, and it
does sound crazy, but it is true.
I know that freedom is the way to go, for me and for
her. I know in my heart that when I said she was free, I
meant it. But I don't think that somehow that was going
to shield me from more pain or the shock of a new affair.
I continue to let go, and last night I know I reached an
even higher level of loving detachment. I know God is
acting, again, in very odd ways, but what is happening is
what I/we need. Someone more powerful than me is holding
my hand with care. And the leaps do make sense. And some
of the darkness makes sense.
I am now more convinced than ever that my wife's
addiction is very powerful. She is even beginning to
sense that it is more powerful than she is, that her
childhood experiences at home had a huge impact on how
she has acted throughout her teenage and adult life.
Oddly enough, yesterday, for the first time ever, we
really started talking about these issues. I felt this
huge weight being lifted from both of our shoulders once
we both recognize that a trial separation was an
illusion, that she really did not WANT to make a change
from looking and exploring romantic/sexual relationships
with other guys, that that is how she has been all her
life and that's how she wants to continue. So a divorce
was the only sensible answer. And we both agree. And I
just let it go, calmly, trustingly. And I feel peace
again, lightness.
I don't know when she will hit bottom, but we now
believe that the current living arrangement and even a
three month separation was not appropriate for me or her.
I do need to create distance, like you say, and a divorce
allows us to do that. I can't create more distance than I
have created living together. I prayed and prayed to have
a clear mind to decide between a separation or a divorce,
and my nagging little voice we always talk about has been
saying for several days now: divorce. Even when I ignored
it, and planned for the separation, it very clearly,
strongly and with external signs, brought me back to
divorce.
I couldn't agree with you more regarding why I am in
this. It does not sound crazy at all. It makes a lot of
sense. She and I know that we must, despite all the
problems, give our children love, so that they may grow
in love. I just wished so badly that this could have been
done with us married rather than divorced.
Bernd, yes, those prayers are being answered. They
are, but, again, all good comes through calvary. I know I
am freeing myself. Thank you for your kind words. I see
myself in them very clearly. You have an incredible
amount of spiritual energy and I can feel it. God bless
you.
|
