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 I set myself up for the fall -
Dean
Well guys, I made that call this morning. It started
out really well and I told her I enjoyed having lunch
last week, that maybe we could this again sometime this
week. She agreed and would welcome the invitation. Well,
as we talked more, she told me that her ex husband had
called this weekend...to talk to the kids. That wasn't
unusual. I ask if she has progressed with the past hurts
from that marriage and she said "yes, I am over all
that now....I don't even think about it like I did when
we were together". I responded that this was great
and was a step forward for her to get that behind her.
I then ask where the 22 yr. old guy was with her (
remember, she started seeing him after we split) and she
responded " still there some". I ask when this
came about as she had told me two and half months ago it
was over.....and that she couldn't believe she ever saw
someone that you. Well, you guess it....this pulled my
trigger and I got a big lump in my throat. I then ask
what she wanted to see me last week for.....and that I
must have misunderstood, and why did she kiss me that
day. Her response was...." I want to work on the
friendship part of "us" before anything
else.....and that the kiss was just a habit" A habit
by tongue kissing I thought to myself?
Anyway, I told her I could not proceed with us with
this "other" still in the picture.....and she
got quiet and then said "ok...I just wanted us to
work at being friends". Anyway, I just started
falling apart and told her I wish she would have been up
front with me at the lunch so I would understand the
boundaries. she said she was going to bring this up when
we talked the next time.....and that set me off again! I
told her I wished she would be honest and bring things up
at the time they are on her mind instead of holding them
in......just like the built-up anger she had with me from
the past. I don't know.....maybe I am just hoping we
could put the past in the past and move forward....but I
seem to be falling back some more. I told her I have
gotten tired of the dance and I want a real
relationship......that I get so tired of all the mixed
messages that I receive from her. My anger had subsided a
lot, but after this conversation, it is coming back... I
don't know what else to do. Yes, I am working on ME, but
we can't come to any "common ground".
Anyway....thanks for listening...I just had to vent this
anger out!!
 From: wolfie
I do NOT feel you set yourself up for a fall. I feel
you were honest with your feelings and you communicated
that. Feeling vulnerable is hard - but you showed
strength and you faced your fears. You communicated and
expressed your feelings. She too expressed her feelings -
now you are both clear. Dean - I was your SO. I bounced
back and forth, got "confused", was with him,
then back to him, then back to him until .....I crashed.
I knew I had a big problem because my relationships felt
extremely unmanageable and I felt out of control. I was
always out trying to fill the void and yet I FEARED
intimacy, commitment and closeness - as you can see -
there is a major conflict there - so I didn't make much
sense - to myself and probably to others. Not to mention
I had big people pleasing problems. Anyway, I knew I
needed help so I surrendered to God and was led.........
In regards to your present, now that you have both
talked, all you can really do is pray for her and that
her higher self guides her and pray for you in that you,
too, shall be guided. All is well! My prayers are with
you!!!
From: Dean
Thank you for the response. I understand what are
saying, but where does it all end? How long am I to go on
playing this kind if dance? I am getting really tire if
the dance and all the mixed signals. I am getting real
burned out on it all. Where did you end up in your
situation? After out conversation on the phone, I was so
ANGRY that I had stepped back into that pile of shit
again.......made me feel so stupid. I want a relationship
that is real. Where both parties understand there will be
hurts and joys throughout the course of time......but I
don't think she see that. I feel she thinks that a
relationship is to be free of any conflict, which totally
a fairy tale! I on the other hand realize that there will
be ups & downs....and I am one who is aware of this
and will stay with it thru it all. I am not a quitter by
no means...I don't give up at the change of the winds. I
may have not done the right thing, but I sent her a
letter today and expressed what I felt.........that we
just needed to resolve what once was and move on with our
lives as I wasn't going to be a party to the current
dance that is going on. I felt as if I had to draw a line
somewhere, so this was how I drew the line....by writing
the letter. I appreciate your comments and welcome any
more you may have.
From: wolfie
You asked - how long am I to go on playing this dance?
You play it until YOU no longer want to play it anymore.
You are the master of your ship Dean - she is not the
master of your ship unless you allow her to be.
I see nothing wrong with the letter you sent - You
took a stand for yourself with what is not acceptable to
you!!!!! Prior to meeting my present partner, I was in a
different relationship and it became pretty clear to me
that this person was becoming less interested in me as
time went on - in fact he ended up saying to me that I
would always be second best - his music was his true love
- and always would be - it was like an addiction etc. He
wanted to see how things turn out - But to be honest with
you, this isn't what I wanted - I wanted a fully
committed relationship. It was very hard - very hard -
but I made a choice that this isn't what I wanted. I
wanted a mutually committed relationship. In a sense, I
could have continued to live "old patterns" and
"try to get him to love me" but at this point
in my life, I was Very aware with what I was attracting
into my life and why. The point is, I was aware. What
this experience brought to me was ALL of my feelings of
abandonment, unworthiness....it seemed like every person
loved me in the beginning and later as time went on, they
would lose interest. This wasn't about the Men in my life
- they did NOT do these things to me - I DID THESE things
to me!!!! The question to ask is: Why? What is this
bringing up for me? What am I feeling? Do I see a pattern
here?
Allow yourself, Dean, to FEEL whatever it is you wish
to feel!!!! If you feel angry, so be it and express your
anger appropriately. Usually beneath that rage is intense
sadness, then even deeper, it is fear. The key is to
allow yourself to feel whatever it is you are feeling!!
Ask yourself - what do I feel? You may be amazed that you
feel Exactly like how you felt as a little child. THAT
needs to be healed - and IT WILL be healed.
You asked me where I ended up? Well with all of the
people I got confused with - with him, back to him, etc.,
I ended up with none of them. I chose, instead, a SERIOUS
looking at myself! I was guided to a process that helped
change my life and helped me to, for once, take
responsibility for my life. Anyway, it didn't mean my
relationship problems went away though - I mean I am
still learning and will probably never stop learning. But
I did get to a point where I knew what I was looking for
- qualities - in a relationship. In other words, I was
trying to consciously co-create with spirit what it was I
wanted vs. subconsciously attracting certain people in my
life based on my deep seeded beliefs about self. Thoughts
are things. Anyway, I don't want to get sidetracked here.
I attracted that one soul in my life, who helped me
release Many abandonment issues, (it needed to come up
first) and then I attracted my present partner. Oh and
BOY is he committed!!!!! I am the one who has wanted to
run so so so many times. But as I've said before, I am
done running and my partner knows this.
Looking at my life and being aware and seeing
patterns, helps me today in the present. It helps me to
recognize an old pattern when it appears so I can look at
it and say - "HA, I know what I am doing, have done
this before". It helps put a stop to an old pattern.
But even today, there have been times when I've gotten
confused.... when I have tried to self sabotage our
relationship (by saying inappropriate things) when I've
wondered if I should leave....but we do TALK a lot!!!! If
you ask him, he will probably tell you that he never
knows how I am going to be feeling one day to the next -
and it is true - for I have been all over the place. But
I am blessed. He is patient. He knows of all of my fears
etc. We talk a lot!!!!! As he once said, if I want to end
it, it is going to have to come from me because he will
not. He loves me and he is in it for the duration. But it
has been difficult for both of us. Once you make that
commitment to yourself in a relationship, things are
never the same for all of our most deep seeded fears,
pains, shadows, problems, issues, traumas, etc., come to
the surface. It is not easy - it is like a dark night of
the soul - but I know (and especially thanks to people
like Bernd and Lynda) it does not last and things get
better.
I don't know if any of my words helped you. I have a
tendency to be long-winded at times. I think the only
thing you can do right now is ask yourself what you are
feeling - what feelings are coming to the surface - and
allow yourself to have these feelings. I remember when I
was dealing with those abandonment issues that that
person helped raise in me, I screamed very loudly - I
WILL NOT ABANDON ME EVER AGAIN! For it is about us and we
do these things to ourselves.
Dean, allow yourself to feel anxious, to feel whatever
you are feeling and keep telling yourself that - I am not
alone - I am not alone. And just try to envision this
healing, light energy filling your body, surrounding you
and protecting you. Envision your higher power taking you
by the hand. And try to envision your SO's higher power
taking her by the hand. All is well.
If you feel like venting or screaming - you can do
that here - it is a safe place. Remember, you are the
master of your own ship. Fill yourself with love and
light and know that you are Beautiful!
From: Dean
Thank you again! I agree with what you have said. And
the fact about is, I send her the letter expressing that
I have drawn the line and will not dance like this
anymore as it is NOT acceptable to me. I also mentioned
in the letter that I would not be a part of anything that
would hurt another even if I had been hurt from them in
the past. I will give you the short detail here: She has
been seeing this guy again off & on and she knew that
If I was aware of this I would have never agreed to have
the lunch with her. I told her I could not do this again
even on a " just friends" basis because I put
myself in his shoes.....he would be very uncomfortable
knowing we were seeing each other even if it were
"just friends" due to our extensive background
we have had together. I just feel there doesn't need to
be a third party that will interfere with her current
relationship as that is where she needs to commit.....and
not to spread it out with me and him. I ask her the last
time we talked...." what is it that you want from
me....present & future? She responded " to work
on being friends right now .....and that I can't predict
the future". I understand we can't predict the
future, but we have a vision as to what we would
"want" in the future....don't we? I know I have
expressed what I wanted in the present and the future to
her.....but she can't do the same. Sometimes I feel she
is so scared to step out and say what she really wants
from me in the future. Anyway, I could go on for some
time, but we'll do that more later!
From: Bernd
I've been hanging back for a bit, not exactly sure why
(I'm trying NOT to try and figure out my inner voice as
much these days in word form, as part of my recovery).
I'm going to give you a gentle reminder that tripping
and stumbling is a very NATURAL part of the recovery
process. I make lots of mistakes still, but when I began,
I did what you did - beat myself up whenever I slipped
more than I wanted, or thought I should have. One of the
things I had to learn was to be compassionate and patient
with myself.
Let's look at what happens in a dance. If you were
learning to dance in real life, how much practice would
it take you before the steps became smooth, easy, and
graceful? With my co-ordination, learning how to dance in
such ways would take months, and maybe even years. It's
even harder to "change" a dance I've been used
to, because those old patterns are so burned in my head
that often I don't know when my feet are dancing the new
steps, or the old ones.
If I change the way I dance, I'm going to step on the
toes of anyone I'm dancing with (and vice versa), unless
I have patience with myself and them. Loving detachment
means I stay close enough to do MY steps so that they can
get an idea of what I've changed (and see whether they
want to learn those steps too) while giving them enough
space so that we're not stumbling over each other. If
they like what they see, they'll start their own
practicing - but I've got to keep in mind that we all
learn at a different pace, so they may change their steps
faster than I did, or take a lot longer. THEY have to
feel safe in themselves about such change, and need time
to really see whether their new steps really make the
"dance" better for them.
Your ex was honest with you about her current on/off
relationship with the other guy. Maybe ask yourself: how
much do I value such honesty? Do I show how much I value
it in actions as well as words? If honesty is a top
priority one minute, but not the next, you give yourself
and her mixed messages that make building a new
relationship or friendship difficult. It's like doing the
new dance one moment, than all of a sudden going back to
doing the old steps the next.
It sounds like your meeting with her triggered some
very powerful buried anger. It's tempting to believe that
it's there because she's still having a relationship with
this guy. My reading is that this is the tip of the
iceberg, not the iceberg itself. My guess is - while you
were trying to keep the relationship together - a lot of
anger got pushed down, because anger and reconciliation
don't usually make a good mix. To me, this would be
something that your therapist could help you a lot with.
Your relationship with your ex is giving you some very
important clues about what you need to heal most. That's
what relationships do, as Wolfie has pointed out in her
own relationship. Ironically, the more anger, pain,
anguish, and confusion you feel in this relationship
(except in cases where your ex is ADDING to the pile, by
- for example - telling you you’re a worthless human
being), the more gifts this relationship is giving you.
It is bringing important things you need to heal to the
surface, in ways you are unable to do on your own.
Be patient with yourself. Look for healing in yourself
only, and trust that is the best gift you can give to
anyone. Try to keep the focus on what every experience is
trying to help you learn and see inside of YOU. That, in
my experience, is the surest path to love and happiness.
And a gentle reminder: it has taken Lynda and I close to
six years to find the answers that we have so far. I'm
okay with that, because one way or the other, I'd still
be 43 right now. I could be 43 and still jumping from one
swamp to another, or 43 and finding my way out. I'm much
happier with the second choice. Whatever time it takes,
is the time it takes.
Those are a few of my thoughts and guesses. I like the
responses Wolfie has given you, and glad you have her
perspective to help you in your searches. Take care guy,
and be easier on yourself.
From: wolfie
One more thing. I know that, for me, sometimes I look
at things in such a black and white way. To be honest
with you, this black and white thinking has goofed up my
life. Being a very obsessive person, it is easy for me to
fall into a trap of black and white - or extremes. When I
feel hurt, I want to say Screw It and Shut that door and
move on. However, what I have learned over the years is
that gray works best. Even stumbling around in confusion
is totally ok - not knowing which way we are going is ok
- it is just having faith that no matter what, all is
well and we are exactly where we are supposed to be. It
doesn't have to be one way or another - it can be all.
The middle way - the gray way :-)
Anyway, I agree with Bernd to just go easy and very
gentle with yourself. When you are gentle with yourself,
you are able to be gentle with others and their
imperfections. That is why I believe that if we loved
every single piece of ourselves, we would love everyone
in the whole world - for we are all one and connected.
From: Dean
Bernd, I agree with all you have said. The one thing
that still puzzles me though is....I want her to be
honest with me even if it triggers something from the
past. All I have ask from her is to be honest about
things upfront, not later. I have gotten over the fact
that she was seeing this guy, but what really got me is
that she didn't tell me until we spoke on the phone a
couple days after we had our lunch. If I had know that
before hand, I would not have had the lunch.I try and put
myself in the shoes of him as I would not have felt
comfrontable if she was going to lunch with someone that
had such a long history in the recent past. Am I wrong
here? Another issue I have is the mixed messages....we
kissed several times during our lunch, and it was
passionate kisses like we had in the past. I asked her on
the phone why she even did this and she responded "
it was a habit". Well, I disagree......I have
learned from therapy that we creat our boundries.....and
we have control over who enters those boundaries and at
what distance we keep them at. Our closest boudaries, as
the one we are dealing with, we have control over.......
who we kiss, how and where we are touched, and who we
have sex with....etc. I feel that she wanted that kiss or
else she would have put up a block to keep me from that
boundary.Is this not mixed messages? Or Am I just out in
left field ? Maybe you can shed some lite on this as this
is where I get the most turmoil in it all.
From: Dean
Bernd, I agree with all you have said. The one thing
that still puzzles me though is....I want her to be
honest with me even if it triggers something from the
past. All I have ask from her is to be honest about
things upfront, not later. I have gotten over the fact
that she was seeing this guy, but what really got me is
that she didn't tell me until we spoke on the phone a
couple days after we had our lunch. If I had know that
before hand, I would not have had the lunch.I try and put
myself in the shoes of him as I would not have felt
comfortable if she was going to lunch with someone that
had such a long history in the recent past. Am I wrong
here? Another issue I have is the mixed messages....we
kissed several times during our lunch, and it was
passionate kisses like we had in the past. I asked her on
the phone why she even did this and she responded "
it was a habit". Well, I disagree......I have
learned from therapy that we create our
boundaries.....and we have control over who enters those
boundaries and at what distance we keep them at. Our
closest boudoirs, as the one we are dealing with, we have
control over....... who we kiss, how and where we are
touched, and who we have sex with....etc. I feel that she
wanted that kiss or else she would have put up a block to
keep me from that boundary.Is this not mixed messages? Or
Am I just out in left field ? Maybe you can shed some
light on this as this is where I get the most turmoil in
it all.
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