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 My attorney is going to fire
me!!! - mzet
my wife is asking me to give the marriage one last
chance, that she will try really hard for the next
several months, that her two affairs are over, that she
won't restart them or start a new one....and I am
supposed to believe that??? now that I am mentally ready
for a divorce, she doesn't even want a separation!!!! I
am really, really confused now. This may be the third
time I tell the attorney to stop!!!
we went to therapy together for the second time since
this mess started and I guess the therapist thinks that
from now on we should be scheduled for sessions
together....I guess she sees hope where I don't because
until now, she has always told me we are not ready for
sessions together. my wife's supposed to start talking to
me about her old resentments against me.....that will be
a nice change... (not)...at least she will be talking and
I will be listening. and perhaps we will be able to call
that communication. isn't that how Lynda kind of started
her recovery....?
I don't feel pain anymore. the whole thing doesn't
hurt anymore. perhaps because I am so pissed off at
having to stop the divorce again. I feel so stupid and
pathetic about stopping it one more time. in fact, I am
angry about it. but what it is, is really scary now. and
why the hell am I scared? were you guys this scared? I
just want it over and done with one way or the other, and
fast. it's been long enough!!!!! but our life is being
played in slow motion and I can't stand it. I guess deep
down inside I am scared of getting burned again, of
discovering she hasn't or can't or is not willing to
change and that she will start another affair. and that I
will have to gather the mental strength, once again, to
get the divorce. aghhh!!!
 From: Susan
Mzet, I have until now, stayed away from posting
replies to you - certainly not because I didn't care, but
because you seemed to be doing ok. I am not Bernd, so be
prepared here..... Aren't you missing the point here? DO
WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!!! If it is NOW time for
YOU to move on, or for YOU to be separated, or for YOU to
get divorced ----- then do it !!!!
In MY opinion, she has had enough chances, and enough
time to decide how she wants to live HER life, and you
have merely been sitting there, going along with whatever
SHE wanted. Time now to put all those lovely words to
use. DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU.
From: wolfie
I totally Hear You Susan!!!!! YES! Mzet, you seem
really upset because now you HAVE to put a stop to this
(because SHE says???) What do YOU really want? I, too, am
not Bernd and will just voice some thoughts to ponder:
The one thing in my life that I have had the most
difficulty with was MAKING CHOICES. I always felt
that......well if this happens, it must be meant to be,
or if this happens, it must be meant to be, etc. I
finally started learning about self mastery and about
making Choices and seeing what was best for me and making
appropriate choices for myself that supported that
(listening to my inner voice, my higher self). It is
taking a stand with oneself and following through! Your
loving choice for Yourself will be the Loving choice for
all! We are not victims - we are 100% responsible for our
lives - I know some people would not agree but it is a
belief I live by - I feel we choose the life we wish to
live consciously or unconsciously based on our beliefs
about self. I could go on and on about all of that but I
won't. I think I have said enough. What do you want? What
is the loving choice for You? Best wishes.
From: Lynda
What do You want? Take some time to sit quietly and go
inside yourself until you get an answer based on love and
calmness, not fear. This is what you have been hoping
for, for her to want to start recovery and look at issues
that have been interfering with both of your happiness.
Unfortunately, her timing is bad. Had she decided this
last week or a few days ago, your reaction would perhaps
have been much different. Whatever you decide, if done
out of love will be the right thing for you right now.
Mzet, No relationship is a sure thing, no guarantees ever
come with it. I understand how you feel in regards to
"setting yourself up".... for the first 3 years
that we were back together, I was constantly afraid that
Bernd would have another affair or decide to leave the
marriage for good again. It was only thru my own
diligence in continuing my recovery work and working on
my own issues such at that one, that I have been able to
come to a point where I take today for what it brings me
and trust that God is looking out for tomorrow. If he
left, it would hurt, yes, very much... but what I have
gained and discovered from us being a couple thru the
good and bad would always be with me and I would be more
than all right.
You are neither stupid or pathetic, you are confused,
and naturally so. With so much turmoil swimming around
inside of you it's difficult for you to recognize as I
have that you have been touched by Grace, Mzet. I see in
in your posts when you have connected with the spiritual
being inside of you, and it makes a warm rush go thru me.
When we were separated, that was when we each did the
inner search we needed to find our way back together. I
never really believed that Bernd would leave.... and when
he did, I had to face MYSELF. I had no choice, it wasn't
easy but I needed it. Maybe your wife sees the
seriousness of a divorcee and this has jump-started her
into action. If you do decide to go to more sessions with
her, and listen to her "resentments", remember
that they are not necessarily a true picture of things,
they are her feelings and thoughts which have been
intertwined with past experiences dating back to her
childhood and she is projecting them onto the person
closest to her...YOU. Bernd and I both did this, and in
order to understand exactly where these resentments were
really coming from we had to first speak them aloud and
then we were ready to discuss them.
Whatever you decide will not be easy, and we are here
to hold out our hands when you stumble, you will know
inside what is the most healing path for you right now.
Much love to both of you and soft kisses.
From: wolfie
p.s. mzet - I apologize if I sounded harsh - ouch -
was in a frazzled mood myself. I know you must be feeling
overwhelmed. I too know that feeling. Mzet - easy does it
- you are a beautiful soul and whatever you decide, it is
totally OK - more than OK - it is exactly the way it is
supposed to be. One moment at a time, all is well. We are
all with you! Sending you lots of Love Energy! In love
and light, wolfie.
p.s. be gentle with yourself. Something I need to
learn as well. Sometimes I am not so gentle with myself,
therefore I am not so gentle with others. Sorry if I
sounded harsh. God Bless!
From: Bernd
A little voice inside me keeps telling me to just let
you work your way thru this for a bit, without any
guesses from me. I think being quiet and just giving your
inner voice time to talk with you is the best help I can
give you right now. My best guess, anyhow.:)
From: mzet
oh maaaaan, I've been checking every day to read your
words of wisdom and bummer...silence??? :) you're
probably right. this is extremely difficult. my wife and
I feel: well, the triangles are out of the way, but has
anything REALLY changed. no, not really, all the old
resentments are still there. we did talk about them. we
took turns listening and talking, trying to make sense of
them as best we could. but there is nothing there. it's
not like trying to restart a fire from the embers. there
are NO embers. we have to START a fire from nothing, and
we seem to be so tired. we don't want to look for wood,
sticks, find matches, make the fire place, etc.
heck! we seem to not even know what we're supposed to
gather and how to put the ingredients together to light
it. thanks for the silence.....not. :)
From: Bernd
Mzet, I had just wrote an email to someone asking how
I came to the realization that focusing on myself would
improve our relationship more than focusing on Lynda and
the relationship. I think it might be appropriate here,
so I've copied and pasted it below. Also, reread my Good
Friday story, and then reread your line about nothing
changing. Here is the email I just sent:
Hi (name deleted). It was more a growing awareness,
sort of like a flower growing a bit day by day until
something finally blossomed. I got constant reminders -
whenever I focused on Lynda or our marriage, I felt
worse. Whenever I focused on just me, things improved. I
had an advantage that many others didn't as well - I have
chronic depression. I used to hate it, but thru my
recovery, I discovered that depression was a helluva
feedback system. It brought me down in the dumps when I
did things that weren't truly good for me, and eased my
unhappiness when I did things - such as go to alanon
meetings or therapy - that WERE good for me.
I think too that my image of our marriage being in
total ashes helped as well. There was nothing left to
"rebuild", and even if there was, I didn't want
to go thru the whole rigmarole again only to have another
ash dump in another 15 years. My therapist and my pain
eventually helped me see that "I" provided 50%
of the fuel that burned everything to a crisp, and I
didn't want to do that again in any new relationship. So
eventually, I realized I had 3 choices - leave and try to
find another partner, stay single, or learn how to love
Lynda in whole new ways - ones that would be based on
genuine love, not how I thought love was supposed to
work. With our history together, our relationship gave me
the best chance of finding out the truths about love. It
was the most selfish choice I could make, for me. That
was my commitment - a commitment to finding the truths
about love, no matter how difficult and painful that
journey would be. My therapist and support group helped
tremendously in that search; I wouldn't have made it
without them.
That help answer some questions? It's a maze at times,
isn't it? Hang in there guy.
From: mzet
yeah, yeah, yeah....I know things ARE changing, but so
slowly it drives me nuts. just came back from therapy
together and we seem to at least be agreeing on hanging
in there, still. we're supposed to be working on our
needs, wants, etc.
it just blows my mind that my wife says that holding
my hand and touching me is between indifferent and a
negative!!! we're not even talking about sex for crying
out loud!!! she keeps saying she doesn't enjoy being with
me alone and that she prefers to spend time with other
people.... the therapist says that she has to initiate
some type of physical contact with me, even if it is
awkward at first. and that we need to spend time
together, even if we don't talk, and that we have to talk
about ourselves so that we discover each other, etc. all
of the things I've been wanting to have happen for the
last eight months. so now that they are or will be here
soon, I am either angry or scared or confused. I know I
can't spoil the process now.
the therapist seems very positive. I'm just so
sceptical because though we have to grow a garden in the
desert and I want it to grow, it is discouraging to hear
my wife say she doesn't want to grow a garden. how can we
do it if she doesn't have the vision to want it? anyway,
the therapist keeps pushing her little by little (and
pushing me along too). so there IS movement. maybe this
thing will work after all. thanks for the words of
support.
From: robert
mzet, Something in your last message has moved my to
ask a question. I think it's another one of those
"Cosmic Baseball Bat" moments for me. Please be
aware I ask this question not to be hurtful or
depressing, but by asking you, I gain insights into my
own issues and questions. Are you in love with your wife
and want this to work out or are you still holding on to
the dream and are afraid of letting it go. Hang in there
buddy. My prayers are with all of you.
From: Bernd
Just a few notes. I get the reading that you see your
anger and confusion is at odds with what you want to
happen because of the therapy. I'd like to suggest
otherwise...that those feelings are ESSENTIAL. See if you
can do some baseball bat sessions, or other safe outlets
to let the rage out. It HAS to come out, because it's
been building for a long time.
It also sounds as if your wife is being very honest
about her numbness, and that honesty hurts like hell.
Without the anger to help give you the energy and clarity
to get to the real source of the deep hurt triggered by
her honesty, it's very likely the pain will get even
worse. Right now it seems as if she's the source of a lot
of your pain, and I felt that way too a lot. It was only
by going to the real source inside - which yes, took
months - that I found out it wasn't her - it was all the
shits that crapped on me in the past, especially during
childhood. If I have a busted leg, putting my arm in a
cast doesn't help me a whole lot. I HAVE to find out
where the real source is coming from. Only then can I
heal it.
I'm going to ask you take another leap of faith, and
trust me when I say everything your wife is doing right
now is what you need most. Use every resource you can to
validate your feelings. And yes, you NEED to feel the
blame and rage over what she's doing, and to validate it,
to help release it so you can move beyond it and get
closer to the real sources of your pain. As long as you
don't dump it ON her, whatever you feel, and however you
let it out and validate it will help you release it -
permanently.
And just a little perspective again...you are going
thru the stages we went thru in about half the time that
we did. That kind of change - and that speed - is VERY
painful the less you are willing to surrender everything
you can over to your Higher Power, and trust with
childlike faith that God will never let you down, as long
as you're willing to let your soul guide you instead of
your brain. You HAVE what it takes. Do the anger thing.
Even when I'm quieter than you'd like, I'm here with you
every step of the way guy. Those are my big shoeprints in
the path alongside yours.:) You have no idea yet of the
sheer miracles that lie ahead of you. Hold my hand.
From: mzet
I've been doing the bat thing my own way, working out
a lot. it works for me, but nothing feels as good as
talking to her. yes, I try to keep it down, but I do say
some mean things now and then....not good. I know.
Bernd, what's odd is that I don't feel pain. maybe the
rage is hiding it. everything prior to the last time I
said enough, I'm out of here, was painful and I found a
way to overcome it in a healthy way, I think. but now I
guess what really pisses me off is that somehow I am to
blame for her affair, that I was too conservative, or too
dominant, or too this, or too that. I know this is not
supposed to be about assigning blame, because the affair
is a symptom, not the problem. but THE AFFAIR WAS HER
CHOICE, regardless of how dry the marriage might have
been. I just hate the attitude that somehow we are not
responsible for our choices but that we need to blame
somebody else, or society, or our parents, etc. it
sickens me. if that argument was right, I should have
chosen to have an affair long ago or even something
worse...and I have not.
her numbness does hurt. but not as badly. her feeling
of disgust toward me does hurt. that she can't even rub
my back, or get too close to me, her telling me she
prefers to be with other people rather than with me, that
she can't even stand that I know when she has her period.
what kind of monster am I? am I that bad? Bernd, I did
recognize that I had some weaknesses. and I am more than
willing to change them for MY sake. one of them was
always depending on another woman to find my happiness.
I'm over that. I will never let that happen again. but I
guess I am tired of giving and giving and giving with
practically nothing in return. and I know we are supposed
to love unconditionally, but it is soooo hard.
I know I have to overcome this hump if I want things
to work out. and I want to. and what I get is what I
need. and I do embrace it as the will of god. and I am
putting it on god's hands because I can't control what my
wife goes through or how fast she changes or if she
changes. but it's so hard not to dump on her and it is so
tempting to date someone else to make sure I'm an ok guy,
that I have the mind, the personality and the body some
other woman wants, that I am not a bore, that I am not a
monster....I see, I see, what is happening IS what I
need, because I need to overcome the fear that I am not
ok. that's what the pain is saying. I think. I was so
clear before, now I'm so confused. is it your hand I
feel? I wish it was her's.
From: Bernd
The hurtful things we said to each other...been there,
done that bought not only the T-shirt, but the whole damn
textile mill.
Picture the layers of an onion. You are the top layer,
and right now, that's all she can see. It looks as if
you're the WHOLE onion, but it's only after she's peeled
into you as much as she needs to, that she begins to
discover that there are many, many layers underneath,
none of which belong to you. Lynda hit me with a
bunch...I SEEMED like the biggest monster in her life at
that time. And there were a lot of times when she seemed
that way to me.
I don't find it odd that you're not feeling much, or
any pain. I suspect that it sorta swirls in and out, and
is "felt" as something else. My reading is that
the dominant feeling is you are pissed off royally, anger
which you need to get in full touch with (and seem to be
doing so). The strongest emotion usually makes others
"unfeelable" until it's resolved. Also, your
body may be shutting down your connection to your pain to
protect you, until you mobilize the anger sufficiently to
give you the energy you need to handle it.
Lynda blamed me for the affair, and she needed to
focus on me as the "reason" until she was able
to really begin the painful and excruciating process of
looking honestly inside of HER. In hindsight, I believe
now that it really didn't matter who struck the
match...we had both been flooding the marriage with
volatile gasoline. It would have exploded one way or the
other regardless. Can you be okay with her blaming you
for anything she needs to right now, while staying solid
inside yourself that BOTH of you are trying your best to
discover what the real truths are? That may help. That's
why I like using guesses so much...I have a lot less at
stake when it's a guess someone questions, than when I
believe it's incontrovertible "truth". My
defenses don't jump up as fast.
Her disgust: my guess is that she isn't ready yet to
look inside herself and see how she REALLY feels about
herself. My hunch is when she is ready, it's going to be
excruciating. It may be that it's a lot safer seeing the
monsters she feels as being part of you, than being part
of herself. See if you can remember the mirror - whatever
she says about you, she is really saying about herself.
This is a "truth" that seems to have been at
work in our lives a whole bunch - and still is. What we
hate most in others is really what we hate most about
ourselves. And often those sides of ourselves are VERY
well hidden from us, because they're too terrifying to
even contemplate. Seeing the darkest parts of ourselves -
before we're ready - can lead us to suicide damn fast.
your fears; this is where a support group saved my
life. Eventually, I learned that the quickest and surest
way of resolving my fears was to invite them, taunt them
into giving me everything they had. Old shit works like
bullies - it's the intimidation that's paralyzing. Once
you call their bluff, and tell them to give them
everything they got, that they lose their power. The
smokescreen is gone. "Come and get me!" is the
phrase that always works for me. I also wrote a "lie
list", that contained every lie about myself I could
think of that I kept hearing inside my head. "You're
a shit, a nerd, a lazy SOB, a jerk, no-good
husband", etc., etc. I wrote them down, and at the
top of the page in HUGE letters, I wrote "My Lie
List". I used it whenever I started believing those
lies again, yanking it out, and calling those thoughts
what they were. Having them on paper took a lot of weight
outta my head.
One step back, two steps forward. Don't matter if
they're baby steps, they're still steps.:)
From: mzet
read your words, again, and again, and they do make
sense. I also read some of my past postings to try to
figure out how the hell I forgot everything so quickly.
it all makes sense in a very twisted kind of way. I am
going to try really hard. I know god is giving me the
patience, once again, to get going, to embrace the
process, to have faith in it, to grow a garden in the
desert. we can if we try. for the first time again, I can
say my wife is really trying. I should too. I am.
I like the onion symbol, because when we keep peeling
away,layer after layer, we end up with nothing, except
god, if you care to listen. I'll keep you posted. take
care.
From: drew
Hey, MZET!! I've been out of town for a spell and just
read all these latest employment issues your lawyer. .
.In the past, some of the replies from you guys have
touched me to tears. These days, the tears are sharing
YOUR frustrations. . .man, let me buy you a drink!
You have been like an instructor, MZET, standing up on
your tightrope and sending down your lessons and cautions
to those of us who are doing the same things --just on a
different level. Now you've stepped out for the 'big
performance', and we watch in awe/horror/hope. We're
holding our breath while you face what you 'have to do',
knowing that the knowledge and power is inside of
you--praying that you can only keep that focus. (Which
explains why Bernd would hesitate to make a peep! ;))
You know, when you finish this, MZET, you'll be
meeting Bernd on the platform at the other side of the
tent! Godspeed! hugs and prayers
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