 |
 Her feelings still haven't
changed - Tom
Was searching the old posting and found MY thread!
Wow...hope it helps someone else. To continue my sage, my
wife STILL says she's in love with him, yet they haven't
communicated since mid June (about 2 months). She says
she's lost "those" feelings for me and isn't
sure if they'll ever come back. She says she wants them
to and for us to have a great marriage, but her feelings
just aren't there. I'm getting SO frustrated. You were
right. This is tough love.
Somedays (like right now) I feel like divorcing her.
She said if the tables were turned and she would divorce
me! She can't understand why I want to stay together. Is
there hope? Perhaps. I just don't want to live my entire
married life with just a roommate. I need to be in love
with my wife and I demand the same back. How long will I
wait with the status quo before giving up the ship? I
don't know. I'm going TDY (Temporary Duty...I'm in the
AF) for 90 days starting in October. When I get back in
January, hopefully she'll have worked out some of her
feelings... Thanks again!
 From: Claudia
Tom, Love is not something that can be demanded.
From: really?
Love can be demanded. It just may not be granted.
From: Tom
I agree you can't demand love. My wife has to give it
to me. I cannot take it from her. That's obvious.
From: patience
Tom, you have a lot of patience, don't you? You also
have a lot of understanding. That is good. Let me say
some comments about some thoughts about the posting you
have made online. It is unrealistic to think that the
"old" feelings will come back, because they are
long and gone. You should try not to live in the past.
The past is gone, and you can remember it, and you can
learn from it. However, it is the future that you should
try to work on during this moment called the
"present". This is where you have the ability
to make choices on what you are going to say, on what you
are going to do, and on what you are going to react to.
It is in this moment that you can react to outside
stimuli, or you can observe outside stimuli and then
decide how you will react. You can explain to your wife
that you are still married to her because you want it to
work out with her, and that you love her, and that you
want to stick by her even through hard times. You can
explain to her that you married her because ( you fill in
the blanks) and can also try to list all of the good
times that you have had. In your own life, you can think
about how you used to feel and how you used to talk to
her when things were going well, and there was
"love" feelings. You can compare that past to
the way that you have been recently treating her, and try
to see if you speak to her in a different tone of voice
or in a different way with different emphasis and
different gestures. It may be that you are treating her
in ways that before you would "never" have
because before you were so much in love with her.
It is a good thing if you can try to build up her
self-esteem by telling her all of the things that you
like about her, and about all of the things that you are
thankful in relation to the times that you have spent
with her. You can tell her that you appreciate her for
(you fill in the blanks), and can mention that you would
like to (you fill in the blanks). It may also be good to
try to see if she is interested in re-developing a future
"dream" for your life, which may include moving
to another location or "settling" down in some
place to get to know each other again. The more that you
build her self-esteem the more that she will feel
comfortable to "re-kindle" the old feelings
that she had. She may feel very guilty about what she has
done, and she may not feel very good inside about the
whole situation. The more that you can help her to feel
loved, appreciated, and so on, the better the chances are
that you can get over the things that happened in the
past. The more that you try to make her feel bad about
what happened and the more that you try to make her feel
guilty, the more that she will build up an emotional wall
in between you.
The reason is that it may be too painful for her
emotionally to get in "touch" with her love
feelings for you because then she may need to get in
"touch" with her guilt feelings as well. If you
can somehow build up her self-esteem and make her feel
good, then those guilt feelings will become less
powerful, and she will feel that it is safe to get in
touch with her good feelings for you and you will be able
to have a better relationship than you have had before.
Try to find out more about how to develop good
communication skills, and how to build up her
self-esteem. If you have friends that have good
communication skills in their intimate relationships,
then talk with them and see if they have any suggestions
that can help you. It may be difficult to bring
"back" the old feelings that she had for you,
though it is not impossible. It is in fact possible to
develop "new" feelings, meaning that if you can
figure out what it was that you did to make her fall in
love with you when you originally got married, then you
may be able to "do that again", and make her
fall in love with you again.
If you think about it, you probably did do some things
differently than you have recently been doing, and you
may want to consider that. There are some other things
that may help. One is to find a "love" doctor
or "love" expert who knows how to kindle love
feelings between couples. This kind of "doctor"
is different than the doctor who tries to sort through
all of the problems in a relationship. This doctor will
simply use techniques to bring love back into the
relationship, and to help couples to fall in love with
each other again. Some people think of Barbara D'Angelos.
You might try her, or someone else who you believe is
qualified. It may be helpful to read some books, though
if you are serious about it, you should go talk with the
love doctor in person with your SO.
From: Tom
I agree I can't live in the past...but I want a future
I can look forward to. We've talked about
staying/divorcing a LOT together. We've come to the
mutual conclusion we should stay together and try to make
it work...mainly for the children's sake, but we both
want to be happy.
Reflecting upon my recent behaviors, I have been
really depressed and probably not myself. She hasn't
either. This is hard for both of us. She's still in love
with another man and that drives me crazy. I've been a
lot more moody. Although I've been taking her out a lot,
buying her flowers, etc. Generally, we are getting along
great except at the one-on-one level... Maybe that's not
a good way of describing it. We hold hands, kiss and
hug...but not much more. Sex is completely out of the
question right now... She doesn't want me that way and
THAT strikes me to my core...but I'm trying to cope with
it as best I can.
As far as moving, etc...I'm in the AF and can only
move when the AF says I can move. That will happen again
next summer and we'll leave Germany (Thank GOD for that).
We just sold our home in Indiana so we aren't committed
to living in any one place in particular. We'll see how
we like it at our next assignment.
I'd LOVE to find a "love doctor" but my
choices are severely limited in Germany...especially when
the local doctors all speak German and we don't! I don't
know if they do consulting over the internet, but I would
consider it. Waiting until next summer may be too late.
From: Bernd
Tom, Are there any counseling services available on
base? If there are, do you have reservations about using
them?
Lynda and I struggled with pretty much the same thing
(although each situation is unique). The pent-up release
she had with her boyfriend of so many of her feelings,
was still a fresh memory. The contrast between how caged
she had felt in our marriage, versus that freedom,
continued to be one of her struggles. Added to that was
the confusion and guilt she felt over what she had done,
and the strong feelings she continued to have for this
man. I’m going to ask you to put yourself in another
pair of shoes for a second, and think about how it would
feel if SHE said to you “get over it, and act like a
man”. Does that bring some anger up? If so, that
anger would make it next to impossible to sort out other
struggles and feelings you have. I suspect she is finding
it next to impossible as well to really sort out
what’s going on inside of her, because your
depression, pain, and need for her to work things thru to
take care of YOUR feelings add weight to an already
unbearably heavy load she’s carrying with her OWN
struggles. You both are in a lot of pain, and to get
close to you means that SHE will have to feel your pain
as well as hers (this is a natural part of intimacy, not
something you’d “force” her to do).
If you had a huge difficulty in your job that
continued to frustrate you, I suspect you’d search
for someone with the knowledge and experience to help you
resolve it. It may take a little bit more digging to use
the same approach in your marriage, but asking yourself
what the stakes are will help you get a better feel for
the amount of effort that’s worthwhile putting into
such a search. There ARE answers and solutions to what
you and your wife are going thru. To find them may mean a
commitment unlike any you’ve ever made before. Think
of being involved in an investigative team looking at why
an AF jet crashed. Would you be satisfied with leaving
any stone unturned to make sure the disaster didn’t
happen again - ESPECIALLY if you were the pilot of a
similar jet? In a similar way, the more you learn about
why your marriage is having such struggles right now -
and what solutions will really work - the better chance
you have of not crashing again. There’s one big
difference between your marriage and a plane - your
marriage won’t “kill” you even when it
feels like it’s on a dizzying dive.
I’d suggest hitting the bookstores - including
online ones if there aren’t any good English ones
nearby - and reading everything you can on relationships
and marriage. Look at them as “counselors” on
your night table. Also, this kind of exploration is
almost impossible to do alone. Search out other men at
your base who you feel have integrity, and
trustworthiness, and ask one to be your mentor. The best
kind is someone older, who has a sound marriage, and is
willing to share their experiences and insights. This
person will be invaluable to you, giving you reality
checks on your own progress, as well as validating your
own worthiness and giving you a safe place to let off
steam. Yes, there is a risk here, but “no risk”
can also be the highest risk.
Thirdly, do whatever you can to take the edge off of
your sexual frustration (besides infidelity). I
don’t know if you feel guilty or angry when you
think about fantasizing having sex with imaginary
partners, but I found it helped me a lot in taking the
edge off. Our imagination is a safe place, because
thoughts aren’t choices. We only get into trouble
when we want to turn our imagination into reality.
I’m not suggesting this is a substitute for sex in
the marriage; all I’m saying is that whatever you
can do to give yourself good sexual feelings will help
you in reducing your turmoil and dependency on your wife
right now. The more weight you can take off her shoulders
as far as your needs, the better chance she has of
focusing on HER internal struggles, and finding some
answers that will benefit both of you.
Our marriage started to turn around once I stopped
focusing so much on what Lynda wasn’t giving me, and
began exploring how to take better care of MY needs.
We’ve all grown up using love partly as a drug
(pain-killer) and partly as the real thing. It’s
really hard for us to see when we’re doing the
first, until we get more insight from others (either thru
their written words, or spoken ones). Instinctively,
something inside us “knows” when we’re
being used as a drug; when it happens, something in our
system shuts down our feelings, and throws a wall up to
protect us. The longer we’ve been in a relationship,
the harder it becomes to push that wall back down inside.
What helps us most is having our partner discover what
things they are doing and needing that are part of using
us as a pain-killer, and finding ways to turn those into
genuine, caring and compassionate love. Both partners win
whenever this happens. So do the kids, in huge ways. You
break some of the balls and chains that were handed you,
and give your kids a MUCH better chance of having a happy
marriage themselves, from what they learn from your
example.
You can’t do it alone Tom. You’ve discovered
that already. I hope you find the courage and hope you
need to do the searching that will bring you to the
doorway that leads to real happiness in your marriage -
for you, your wife and your children.
From: Cindi
There is a group on line that deals with extra-marital
affairs. The BAN group.
Http://www.vaughan-vaughan.com/index.html. They are both
PHDs. You have to have a membership, but it is nothing
more than an online request form they have. I have
joined, but just recently, so I cannot give you an
opinion yet. But I have read the posts and it has helped
me to identify with others who has been down the same
road.
Hang in there, the old saying "This too will
pass" is true. We don't always get want we want in
life, but we usually get what we need. The problem is we
usually resist what we need, kicking and screaming all
the way. Do what you need to do to take care of you, do
what you can do as a couple to take care of the
relationship. The rest is out of your control. I have
been where you are now, and I hated it at time, but it
turned out to be one of the best things that happened to
me.
From: mzet
Tom, I haven't had a chance to read all of your story.
I KNOW EXACTLY HOW YOU ARE FEELING, my wife started an
affair a year ago. She finally broke it off in May but
had a second affair with another man immediately after.
She broke off with the second guy in late July.
It took her many months, essentially from December 96
until May 97 to break off with the first guy, and perhaps
it took the second affair to get the first guy off her
mind. The second guy was much easier. But know she still
misses the thrill of freedom she felt with the affairs.
This is hard to do. Remember that your wife is really in
love. There a chemical changes in the brain that take
place when you fall in love. Your whole life shifts, you
feel free, empowered, invulnerable, etc. It is hard to
break from that type of thrill. I have said before that
it is just like an addiction. It is tough to be sober
again. Give her time, more time, as much time as you can.
Give her space, more space, as much space as you can.
I also have not had any sex, since January to be
exact, not even a kiss, but I have been able to somehow
temper my sexual desire. In fact, that is now secondary
to other more pressing needs I feel I have, such as
intimacy, holding hands, hugging, talking, playing
together, going out with her, etc. What I have done to
temper sex has been to try to concentrate on answering
why the hell I need sex so badly that it tarnishes what I
am trying to accomplish, which is to work on the
relationship. I know that when I ask for sex it turns her
off completely, so I only do it in indirect gentle ways
and only once every other week or so, and I don't blow up
when I am rejected, which is very hard to take,
especially in the beginning. To me, sex is only the icing
on the cake, great to have, but you need the cake first.
I had sex about five times a week with my wife for
twelve years, plus, since I just couldn't get enough, I
used pornography regularly, so it was extremely difficult
to get used to no sex, but it is possible. This will
sound strange: Fasting within the context of prayer has
helped me tremendously. In giving up food in a limited
and controlled way and within the context of a spiritual
life, in tempering my hunger, I think I have been able to
temper my sexual desire. It's as if fasting shifted my
mental energy from feeling frustrated about sex to
feeling my hunger and consciously controlling it rather
than it controlling me, and in turn, that has allowed me
to use the same experience to control sexual desire. The
link is not direct, but I believe it is there. In fact, I
didn't start fasting to control sex, but it has been an
added benefit. And like I always say, this has been my
solution and only my solution, I am not saying you or
anybody else should try it, but so far it has worked for
me. I feel a lot more freedom now than before. I'm not
constantly thinking about sex and I can concentrate
better at work, the kids, play time for myself, etc. But
most importantly, this has taken a load out of our
relationship...
I constantly feel like divorcing my wife too. She also
says she would have left me a long time ago if she were
me, that she doesn't understand how I can still love her,
that she doesn't love me, etc. But I think we should keep
in mind that our wives hate themselves for having done
this and for many other reasons we don't' understand and
they have not begun to explore, so they can't stand why
we just don't hate them also. I take this whole mess a
day at a time. I don't dwell on how long I feel I can
take. I don't have a deadline. It might be a year or a
day or ten years, I don't know. I tell her I wish she
would just say I WANT this to work out. I don't ask for
an I WILL or an I CAN make this work, but more an I WANT.
She hasn't given it yet. I have told her that until she
makes that step, any attempt to try to have love
rekindled will be futile. It just won't
"happen". You have to want it first. Then you
are opening up to the possibility of that gift to be
discovered.
Sometimes I feel that life with my wife as a roommate
will be better than a divorce. We have four small kids
and it breaks my heart for them to be living with
divorced parents. Sometimes I feel a divorce will be best
for me, so I can just go out and get my life back
together. It is very frustrating to be going back and
forth. And I don't know what the best answer is.
So right now I just live in an expectant mode, waiting
in silence for God to do His thing, whatever that may be.
I am ready for whatever comes. I hate the wait, and
perhaps that's what God now wants. God knows I can take a
divorce or a good marriage, but that this current
situation is causing a lot of pain. Maybe, just maybe,
that's what He wants for now.
Anyway, there are no easy answers. But if I
concentrate on myself, things get better, regardless of
what the eventual outcome will be. The less I try to
concentrate on trying to fix the marriage, the more it
gets fixed, however slowly. The more I concentrate on
trying to fix myself rather than my wife, the more she
fixes herself, however slowly. Life is a lag. :) My
guesses anyway, take care.
From: Cuckold
Tom I feel for you. Your wife staying with you is a
positive sign. Your wanting to make love to your wife is
only natural. I tried it the night I found out about her
affair. I don't think it helped matters much.(She
divorced me and is still with him)
I told her I loved her tried to do what I thought she
wanted me to but she didn't know what she wanted. If I
could do it over again I really don't know what I would
do, but trying to react to her would be high up on the
list. She later claimed all kinds of things I never did
for her. Any way it takes time to recover from affairs
... a long time... but if she is still there the chance
to make a better marriage is there. hang in there
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