Re: To Kelle

Re: To Kelle ----- From: Lost Love - Date: 06 Nov 1997

Hi,

I'm so glad to hear from you! I didn't realize I had triggered a torrent of responses from Kim and Bernd!! And best of all, to hear that you decided to stay with your family to save the kids the pain of a divorce. I know exactly what Kim meant, but obviously, YOU have decided what is best for YOU at this time, since in your heart and mind, your kids are the most important thing, and even if you feel like you are sacrificing part of your happiness, it has been more than compensated by the fact that you KNOW your kids are happier... Congratulations to you Kelle, and to Luise and Mel too, if they are in similar situations. I love this site, and I have learned quite a bit from the insights I collected from here. It's not that I didn't know some of them already, but it was as if they confirmed that little voice in my heart, as Kim and MZET like to refer to. One of the problems with the insights offered on this site, however, is they sometimes remain in the realm of the abstract, whereas sometimes we would like to know more about examples of the practical aspects of daily routine life. To take your case as an example (If I may be so presumptious as to do so, since it parallels my situation so much), please allow me to offer my perspective on things, as a representative of the "other" side, the male pigs, the (potential) recipient of the bad news! (pardon me for getting longwinded sometimes).

As one who has decided to stay in a "so-so" relationship rather than follow your feelings which want you to go after the apparently more exciting one, you probably may have feel frustrated at times about the lack of romantic feelings toward your husband. You may be wondering, what on earth can I do to rekindle this relationship, make it better, "hotter"? From what you said, your husband appears to refuse to see certain aspects of your love life that has proved detrimental to your relationship. In my wife's case, I didn't see clear because she kept pretty much everything to herself, after she noticed I failed to respond to her reaching out. She did so ever so subtly, I didn't realize there was even a problem. And I have to say, a lot of men, including myself, can be extremely thick skull sometimes, kinda like kids, to whom you might have to repeat something over and over and over, before things start to register. You might say, if he really loves me, why should I have to do that repeately, and why is it I'm always the one who has to do more of the relationship maintenance work? Well, I guess because it is well known that women tend to be more intuitive, they know very fast what works and what doesn't in a relationship. Men tend to be more analytical and cerebral, so it takes them longer to understand issues of relationship. So when it comes to those issues, women may be better equipped, thus end up doing more of it. An analogy can be drawn with a man who knows how to take care of cars, and can talk mechanical stuff easily, leaving his wife baffle and bored by it, and him frustrated because she isn't taking care of cars as well as he does. So he's gonna say, why do I always have to maintain our cars for both of us?... Hence, it seems that generally, women do have a better hand at watching out for the state of relationships. The only way you can make men work harder at it, is to keep pushing them, gently, but persistently. Some people may get angry at me for using the following example, but is may turn out to be truer than we care to admit. Some may even say it's manipulative. But hey, what's wrong if it truly benefits the relationship. So, remember, as numerous men think and act like kids, you need to use the same tactics you do with kids: you get what you want when they are at their weakest, which is when they need something dear to them. What is men's biggest weakness? usually, their need for sex. That's when they are most vulnerable and insecure. Because if their wifes/girlfriends don't want to, they get nothing! And men are very afraid of rejection, especially sexual ones. So when you feel or know they want to be intimate, that may be the best time to initiate intimate and deep and long talks. I.e., ask them, ever so gently, (whisper is best) if they still or do REALLY love you. Don't be surprised to hear them blurt out yes, so they can get on with the business of getting intimate. Naturally, a lot depends on how they say it. The most common answer may be "of course yes, why do you keep asking, you know I love you (translation: "now let's get on with the sex business"). Some men may even get irritated, because you may be forcing them to confront the truth. But don't give in yet. For example, ask them why you don't see it manifested on a daily, regular basis, and not just when they want sex (remember the saying " Women give sex to get love, and men give love to get sex?"). Prod deeper, force them to acknowledge that either they are lacking in their manifestation of love, or they don't love you enough, or at all. Be ready for the truth though, for if they admit their lack of love, you need to know what to do. On the other hand, many men do not know how to express their deepest feelings, for fear of appearing wimpy or weak. Allow them to be vulnerable yet unthreatened, and they will be puppies in your hands, and yet they'll feel good about it. Also, don't be afraid to be frank about what you would like to see expressed. If you want to hear him say "I love you" a lot, just tell him that if he loves you, it would please you tremendously to hear that a lot. Better yet, tell him it makes you feel sexy! Use their weakness again...It's not necessarily because you feel insecure, but it's like a good healthy snack you enjoy a lot, ask him to indulge you. If the husband really loves his wife but is emotionally stuck somewhere (like me at one time), that may allow him to come unstuck. I notice that very often, after being married a long time, many people, men in particular, tend to feel awkward saying "I love you". It's just the human insecure thing again, fear of being vulnerable.

Remember though, under the premise that we know we need to love ourselves first, we are not forcing a feeling from our SO, we are just prodding, encouraging him/her to reveal the truth from their deep inside. There is nothing wrong with that. We are all human, we all have a need to feel loved by the one we love, or want to love. Now some would say, yeah but what does that have to do with the feelings that I do or don't have toward my SO? I happen to believe that it has a lot to do with it. If you already love your SO, the reinforcement can only strengthen your relationship. If the feelings are not in you for whatever reason, sometimes by force of keeping watering a plant, fertalizing it, something might grow in you. But it will happen only if you open your heart and soul to allow it to happen, and through practical measures as I describe above, you may facilitate the growth. Again like fertalizers on plants, they may not grow on their own, but the added chemicals may spurt a bud to grow. From then on, just keep up the maintainance. At least, I know that if my wife had taken that approach with me earlier, I would have woken up long ago, rather than behaving like a sleepwalker all these years. I'm not blame her at all, but just wish that was the case. I hope that Kelle, you will not fall into the same trap as my wife did, where you just silently "accept" your condition, then give and give and give, and one day YOU"LL HAVE ENOUGH! Once the deep feelings are dead, it takes a lot more work, if you're still willing, to bring them back. My wife is at the breaking point, so she doesn't feel the desire to try anymore. To her it's futile, so all she wants to do is be on her own. Yet she's somewhat afraid of making our kids' life miserable. Frankly I don't hold much hope. The sadness in me is just tearing me apart, mostly for her, because I know I have caused so much of her sufferings, and for my kids who may lose a complete family to grow up in. Yes, to me family is also extremely important, and I'm willing to work extremely hard to keep it together. It may be too late for me however.

My point in all of this is, once you have decided to stay in a relationship for whatever reason, try to do the best so you can to enjoy it, rather than just passively resign to it while knowing that it's been for the best of everyone else involved but you. Force it to be improved, rather than just accept it the way it is. For instance, Kelle, if your husband's frequent absenteeism from home angers you, or whatever else, let him know. To defuse his to be expected defensiveness, try saying that as his wife, you would like to share everything with him, including your deepest feelings. Again, I believe the best way is w-h-i-s-p-e-r in his ear when you're near him, in a romantic environment. I strongly suspect you may be able to catch his undivided attention that way. As to the fact you feel underappreciated for all the things you do in your household, tell me about it! I know all too well, because many people don't consider working at home really working, while actually being with kids is more than a full time jobs, plus your actual job, you are doing double shifts!! I hear it too often, from my fellow men, their comments on women, about how their wifes are not doing anything at home, "just watching" the kids. I know because I've been there, staying home to watch my kids when they are sick, and tried to do work at the same time. On the other hand, I resent people when they always assume it's the mother who takes good care of the kids, implying men don't know how to, because I've done way more than my 50% share of taking care of mine from the time they were born to now. There is absolutely nothing a woman does for kids that I can't, except two: giving birth and breastfeeding. I have done everything else, including wiping their behind from infancy until the age they can confidently do it themselves without getting their hands all messy! Which woman hasn't tried to cook with one hand while the other arm is holding a baby while feeding him the bottle at the same time? I know I have, after a full day at work and going straight to taking care of my babies. How about those trips to the doctors and dentists and sitting there with them to hold their hands to reassure them, or holding them through the night on your chest so they can sleep better when they are sick, or the trip to the pharmacy late at night to get the medecine (Sorry for tooting my horn!). So while it's true women's work is too often underappreciated, appreciation should go both ways.

You mentioned your husband's disinterest in this site. If you have a printer at home, what if you print some of the postings, especially the ones by Bernd, and conveniently leave them on his desk to let him read at his own leisure? Your SO may be reluctant to appear giving in to your suggestion (that darn insecurity again), but doing things on his own time is more assuring to him and his malehood. Well, I wish my wife would have the same courage you do, and please don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It takes tremendous guts to stick around, not give in to temptation and follow your feelings. Feelings come and go but doing the right things for your kids will always stay with you.

Thanks Kelle for sharing your experience. I can only wish you the best. Stay in touch if your time allows, be well and happy.